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MPP Solar Inverter Question
#1
Hi all, would like to know if the MMP inverter that I am planning to buy is the good one for my installation. Looking for the new PIP GK series batteryless operation. This is an Off Grid inverter and my system will run also from the Utility (Grid).
As far as I understand, those inverters are not able to feedback to the grid, meaning Zero Export due to regulations. So if the PV produces 2kwh and the load is 1kwh, what happens with the surplus? How can the inverter prevent this to go into the grid? (other inverters use limiters which the MPP hasn't got)


Also, would the PIP work in parallel with the Grid? Or they are like 2 stand alone modes: PV+Batteries or Grid? PV production 3kwh and the Utility 1kwh doing my total load 4kwh or it would come everything from the utility as the PV is not sufficient?

Many thanks and I hope you can help me out with this as couldn't find an answer yet to this and you guys seems pretty knowledgeable with this inverters.
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#2
PIP series is offline inverter = it will never combine grid and battery/solar power at same time. If you want that function you need to go for their hybrid series.

The new batteryless operation is just a feature that the inverter can run from other than battery source as main power for the inverters own computer inside!
So basically its either battery + solar or grid. never combined!

note that power is measured in kW/W not kWh/wH. The later is total energy over time.

So if you solar produce 2kW and you use 1kW the last 1kW will go to battery if battery isnt full. If you only produce 500W and you need 2kW and battery is empty it will switch over and supply your load from GRID instead and the solar will charge the battery only during this (I guess that atleast otherwise they missed something)

So PIP series = either or. not combined.

Also note that in some countries you still need to get it approved and the unit need to be approved. Many places doesnt care if you send back to grid or not. The device is hooked up to grid and therefore need to be approved.
Serg likes this post
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Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
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#3
Hi, that kind of inverters don't work in parallel with grid as other options that you connect in some electric outlet and with some limiter in the grid input it injects all the needed/posible power to try not to get power from the grid and not to inject to the grid.

These inverters work more like in serie, you connect it to the grid if you want and all the apliances or house circuits hangs from the inverter, so all the load pass throught the inverter, them it takes power if available from panels, battery or grid, only from one or if the inverter is hybrid a mix of then depending of solar production or battery state, and of course depeding of what you have configured, GK is not included on hybrid section of MPP Solar site.

If your panels can produce 2Kw and you only need 1 Kw the inverter just don't get them from panels.
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#4
Thanks guys, a lot clearer than what is on the users' manuals.

Jesusangel - are you saying that this PIPS off grid (not hybrid) will not be able to work PV+Batt at the same moment? Thought they worked in parallel?

At the moment will be looking to install the Inverters with Export Limits (Zero Grid) to cut down my energy bills and be more clean energy. 

Thinking in adding a small bank of batteries later on onto the system. At he moment my agreement with the provider is 4,6kw and would be looking to half it. 

Is it possible to add one of those cheap inverters (1000W) into my batteries and inject this deficit of energy working together with the PV+Grid+Batt(inverter)?

daromer - if you get authorisation for a former installation and later on you put more panels/power. Does it need  a further approval?

Thanks for reding...
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#5
Serg: To part of your initial question,
Quote:"As far as I understand, those inverters are not able to feedback to the grid, meaning Zero Export due to regulations. So if the PV produces 2kwh and the load is 1kwh, what happens with the surplus?"

Basically, with your pip system, if your batteries are full and your house isn't using all the solar energy available, power simply isn't created.  If no demand, the charge controller slows or stops energy production from the solar panels.
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#6
Serg as I said this inverter is Offgrid. its either grid OR solar + battery that powers your load. Energy can only go 1 way and nothing else.

Legal aspects depend on where you live. Many places does not allow changing afterwards meanwhile some do. Check you place
Getting a cheap grid tie inverter = still need approval to sell the energy to the grid and you need a legal device for it. So please look into those aspects first.

Most people doing off grid system like with the PIP design so if you dont use the power you charge a battery bank. If all is full you divert the energy to a 2nd or even 3rd source like hot water system.
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh | Automatic trip breakers, and alot more
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#7
Thanks all for your comments.

As my experience within off grid systems is quite limited, will start with the grid tie inverters configurations firstly  and once I gain more confidence will be adding components to it.

Final configuration would be 3kw Grid tie inverter with limiter, Grid connected and 2-3kwh battery bank with its own Grid tie inverter. Batteries will be configured to supply the deficits of power from the Grid (2.2kw), so If I am consuming 3kw and no PV the batteries will be handling this excess.

With an Arduino I will be monitoring the consumption from the Grid and when it reaches the 2.2kw limit, the Arduino will send a signal to the batteries where they will power it up.

Not sure if all this would work. Seems too simple on paper let's see if technically works...
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#8
(10-25-2018, 06:27 AM)daromer Wrote: Serg as I said this inverter is Offgrid. its either grid OR solar + battery that powers your load. Energy can only go 1 way and nothing else.

Legal aspects depend on where you live. Many places does not allow changing afterwards meanwhile some do. Check you place
Getting a cheap grid tie inverter = still need approval to sell the energy to the grid and  you need a legal device for it. So please look into those aspects first.

Most people doing off grid system like with the PIP design so if you dont use the power  you charge a battery bank. If all is full you divert the energy to a 2nd or even 3rd source like hot water system.

With the PIP 5048MG is it possible to calculate from the data delivered by the inverter how much more power it would be able to deliver with the amount of solar available?

So when the battery is full and the consumption is covered. can i know how much more power i could potentially divert to other sources like the water heater?
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#9
Not sure what you want to so but yeah?
IF battery is above Soc 95% just divert energy. Like

IF Soc> 95 & Charge current > 5a then
Divert Charge current to source yyy
Else dont divert

With external software its doable
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh | Automatic trip breakers, and alot more
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