Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Really frustrating Batrium experience!
#1
Hello, 

I have been trying to get some information about the Watchmon from Batrium with little success.  If I send an email with three short questions, generally one is acknowledged but not answered well/fully, the remaining two questions are ignored entirely.  I send a reply trying to get more information on the poorly answered question and include the ignored questions again, which are then ignored again.  The person I am dealing with (accounts, shipping, logistics) has so far refused to forward my questions on to one of the tech support people despite my requests that she do so...it's a very frustrating experience.  I am trying not let my experience with this one person taint my view of the company as a whole and its products, but it is difficult.

In any case, my hope is to build a 24V mobile power system using either a DIY 18650 battery or a Tesla module (6s74p) or two.  At first I was looking at the upcoming Watchmon5 as it is advertised as being compatible with Tesla modules, but then I noticed that it is only compatible with 9 -15 cells in series, so the only configuration that would work would be two modules (no more, no less) and only in series to make a 48V 12s battery.  This would not work for me, nor is it very versatile.  So I asked Batrium if the Watchmon4 would work with a Tesla module so long as I avoid Tesla's balance wires and instead attach the Longmon leads directly to the battery busbars at 0V, 4V, 8V, 12V...etc.  The person I have been dealing with at Batrium has not/will not answer this question, but it seems like it should work fine?

I hope to use the Watchmon4 to control Victron chargers via the Venus GX and its CAN-Bus connection.  Batrium's instructions include the use of an ESS assistant, which according to Victron should only be used in grid-tied applications and not used for marine, off-grid or mobile applications.  Has anyone tried controlling a Multiplus or Mppt charger without the ESS assistant?  It seem like enabling DVCC (tried to include link, but was not allowed) would be beneficial, but again, I don't know if the Batrium-Victron interface is transmitting all the information needed to make this work.  Anyone tried it?

It seems like the Watchmon4 has the potential to work well for my application, but I would like a little more information before investing a lot of money in this system.


Thank you all for your time and for sharing so much useful information on this forum!
#2
Here is the Longmon information, including a link to the Longmon spec sheet
https://www.batrium.com/pages/longmon

I don't know much about Tesla modules myself, but aren't they just regular 3.7v 18650 cells? The longmons will work anywhere from 2.2V to 5.4V. The important part is you cannot have shared wires, the longmon cables need to attach directly to the battery - which you noted above. So yes, it should work fine for your Tesla modules.

I'm not sure on the charger question.
#3
Hi

First of all sounds like bad experience and I will forward your information here directly to them and hopefully get you the feedback you want. That is though NO EXCUSE that you have not gotten the experience you wanted. On other hand I don't have any input on the conversations so I will leave that alone and so should commenting on it be. Everyone that DO have had this experience you either take it in mail to them and if you think its not forwarded let me know and il help out!

Regarding your actual technical question.

WM4 works perfectly fine with ANY battery as long as each longmon wires have their own connection to its cell and as long as you bypass the shared loom. If you do that it will work just fine. I have done that on all my 4s prebuilt LiFePo4 packs that had a shared loom from start.

WM5 is created based on the current user-base out there. Its a small company and they have limited time to do all configurations and have a set of prioritizes to go by

Your Victron question i cant answer since I don't have any information there.

Im one of the guys that have been using Batrium for quite some time. Many have and have been very satisfied. I have 3 systems running in total. With that said its important to understand that it is a small company! You can browse around on the forum for more information.
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh | Automatic trip breakers, and alot more
#4
(11-01-2018, 06:25 PM)Pine Marten Wrote: Hello, 

...it's a very frustrating experience.  

I don't suppose you are Danny from the Victron forum ?
#5
Hi Pine Marten,

Maxine has replied to several of your requests advising you that neither Watchmon5/6 are not available yet as well as other questions. If you want to chat then book a teamviewer session so that we can discuss the specifics.
https://www.batrium.com/pages/support-ho...o-help-you

Both Watchmon 5/6 were designed based on the repeated requests for nominal 48v battery packs where people were planning/attempting to connect using our existing product and trying using the shared wiring harness. In time we will look at other options but it takes time to design, test and refine a product ready for market. Moving from individual cell monitors to a central system needs the time to refine the typical 48v (14S) configuration and fabrications processes before we consider cutting it down to a 24v (5-8S ) scenario likely to happen just not immediately.

Working with repurposed Tesla cells that are in 2x6S format will in time be achievable. Our timeline is early next year so if you project has to happen now then this product is not suitable.

cheers Jaron
WuggyBuggy likes this post
www.batrium.com provider of battery management for lithium cells
#6
+ 1 you have to connect the cell mon's wires directly to the cells not via a shared loom.
Reason is when a module is bypassing, it affects the adjacent cells voltage readings because of voltage drop on the shared wires.

Others on this forum have used Tesla battery modules with Batrium gear & it works fine after they fixed the shared wire issue.

Any reason you're looking at 6s vs 7s for your 24V pack? 7s is the better 24V fit....

I have Victron gear with Batrium but have elected not to integrate the CAN Bus side. I have the chargers set to right voltage limits directly & the inverter also set to cut off at pack low voltage.
This might not be ideal but it's robust.
Maybe you could also look at prismatic LiFePo4 for simplicity of build.
Running off solar, DIY & electronics fan :-)
#7
(11-01-2018, 10:55 PM)Redpacket Wrote: Maybe you could also look at prismatic LiFePo4 for simplicity of build.

There's also the Mitsubishi EV LEV40 and LEV50 batteries which could make your life easier. Also, consider reaching out to Carel in the Netherlands as he's doing some interesting things with Tesla batteries and Batrium BMS.
<<< Contact me for quality used Yuasa LEV40 and LEV50 prismatic lithium batteries in Australia >>> eBay Link Here
#8
Thank you to all, I really appreciate your input.  My plan is, assuming I can remove the top and bottom plastic covers without damage, is to drill and tap small holes in the busbars at 0V, ~4V, ~8V, ~12V...etc, being very careful not to contact any of the cells.  Then I would attach the Longmon leads in the usual manner/order using brass machine screws.  It should work, as mentioned they are just 18650 cells like most DIY.  In some ways I would prefer to go DIY and would make it 7s for ease of compatibility, but when I do the math, adding the cost of high capacity cells, a spot welder, miscellaneous aluminum+copper plates, fuses, screws and HDPE plastic, it ends up costing more than a lightly used Tesla module.  I'm relatively confident that my Tesla+Watchmon4 approach would work and be more configurable and scalable than the Watchmon5 would be.  

The big question for me is CAN-Bus control of the chargers.  This thread and this thread suggest that maybe Batrium CAN-Bus control is not working as expected currently?  Perhaps Jaron can provide more information?  Also, Jaron, do you know if ESS is a requirement for Venus GX control, I have read about other CAN-Bus BMS/battery systems than work without and allow for the use of DVCC.

Perhaps I am making this overly complicated and should just give up on CAN-Bus control and just go with simple relay (allow/don't allow charge and allow/don't discharge) control?  Sounds like something similar is working well for Redpacket.

Again, thanks!
#9
Currently there are numberous ex EV cells available that are a lot easier to use than Tesla modules, your plan to drill and tap is fraught.

If you compare the cost/kWh you might see another advantage of not using anything with Tesla branding on it.


Batrium CANbus control is functional, I have identified why it is not reliable for my application (using Eltek chargers) and will document that elsewhere at some point. A simple standalone CANbus controller is now in use and is fully functional, and totally reliable. You may well find that for your application WM control is reliable enough - at some point we will see if the GX can be productivity implemented, but currently I can't comment on your direct requirement- have you seen this ?

https://community.victronenergy.com/ques...ium-b.html
#10
Sean, this is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!  Obviously there could be issues as there hasn't been extensive testing, but it seems this system (Batrium BMS connected to Venus GX controlling chargers/inverters without ESS and with DVCC) might work well already.  

As far as cells go, I'm not totally committed to Tesla.  I was looking for high energy in the least volume and mass, as I will have limited space and payload, but perhaps other cells have similar energy/mass and energy/volume at lower cost.  Recently I was looking at Nissan Leaf cells, they are generally less expensive, but I'm pretty sure they are heavier per kWh.  I will also checkout Mitsubishi cells as suggested by Gregoinc.

This forum is really great! My original questions have been answered by writing two posts!  "Our product is not suitable. cheers" is basically all I could get out of Batrium after 17 emails (sent+received) spanning 28 days!  Obviously not helpful and also appears to be incorrect.  However, many seem to be having success with Batrium products and support, so I will not rule them out.


Who read this thread?
100 User(s) read this thread:
hbpowerwall, daromer, Sean, mike, station240, opus40, Korishan, A + A, PAF, Franky Beuselinck, Batrium, Frnandu Martiński, Mike C, jdeadman, wim, watts-on, jesusangel, Stefaan De Ridder, Chiptosser, KtB, Geek, Jon, Bloater, floydR, AlexCPU, SemaJG, Chris Jardine, DCkiwi, emerca, ChrisD5710, Oz18650, Mallusone, setite, CarelHassink, Matt Gross, Filip, Stramon, JRoque, bigblue, Charly144, sturgeo, brwainer, HughF, nrm21, gregoinc, rtgunner, gpn, Salettes90, Jimbob01, Headrc, kanchana, babish, thanar, Doyle, happydaddy, Crimp Daddy, jonyjoe505, Redpacket, mldee, Oliman, farmerjohn, cadric, Bubba, NiallDarwin, Cherry67, CBlack, Scrud, Walde, Garry Lauder, Riplash, 100fuegos, Jim Jr., Katarn_89, albach, w0067814, HikingGuy42, michaell, Gregor Scott, CKJ, Oprisiu Dan, yoeri_w, chuckp, keaton85, WuggyBuggy, emuland-metroman, lifepo4_powerwall, Chass90, jaeger-audiodesign, Patrick St-Onge, Leipi35, glyndwr1998, sl1me, Jernau, Wolf, Bastler_Ro, Lekr, Scottietheyoung, Toubab, Wardy, camthecam

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)