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[SELLING] EOI - New Yinlong LTO cells Australia
#1
I have been approached to distribute new Yinglong LTO cells in Australia.

Apparently Yinlong were having some internal troubles last year, to continue trading they were dismantling pre-assambled battery packs and selling these cells cheaply, these are the cells most of us have been playing with.

Now they have overcome their issues and are back in full swing producing and supplying new cells.

I have been offered access to Yinlong's full range of new A grade LTO 2.3v cells: Cylindrical 66160 30Ah,35Ah,40Ah ,66260 55Ah and prismatic 30Ah and 33Ah.

We have finalised pricing for cylindrical cell and we are looking at AU$2.12/AH for cells in Australia.

Cells would be provided with an Australia tax invoice and warranty.

We can provide freight Australia wide.

I am looking to predominantly order 66160 40AH cells but open to requests.

If you are interested can you please indicate the cell type and quantity.



Edit - To clarify some details:
Pricing has been finalised short of a catastrophic exchange rate crash.

Our goal is to match, as best we can, Aliexpress pricing landed with GST for A-Grade Yinlong cells, yet provide local distribution and support in Australia. As the cells will be locally stocked and distributed there will be no customs and import fees or issues for buyers within Australia. To only additional expense will be local freight within Australia.

The per AH pricing seems to be adding confusion.
As long as the exchange rate does not change dramatically pricing is as follows, this is based on $2.12/AH:
66160 30AH AUD$63.60 each inc GST
66160 40AH AUD$84.80 each inc GST
66260 55AH AUD$116.60 each inc GST

Size:
66160 and 66260 are big cell formats:
Both are 66mm diameter
66160 are 160mm long + 2 x 25mm terminal posts = 210mm and weigh ~1.15kg
66260 are 260mm long + 2 x 25mm terminal posts = 310mm and weigh ~1.9kg
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#2
Hi,

I'm looking at replacements for our lead acid battery bank at the moment. Trying to build a lithium (or similar) replacement pack of around 500AH with an upper voltage limit of 60V and min voltage limit of 48V (range supplied by Selectronic as optimum for the inverter).

If the 40AH Yinlong LTO cells have a maximum voltage of 2.8V per cell and I was to build a battery bank assuming a full charge of 2.7V per cell to avoid hooking up a BMS I would need 286 cells.
That's 22 in series x 13 in parallel.

Would you please let me know:
Do these cells acquire a memory if not fully charged?
Is a BMS mandatory for a bank like I'm trying to build with these batteries?
What kind of price would you expect for purchasing 286 cells?
Is there something wrong with my proposed setup that you might point out if it was to use your 40AH batteries?


Thank you

Duncan

P.S I'm in Melbourne
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#3
I'm very interested BaronVonChickenPants.

Can you ship to NZ?

Alternatively, I can provide Melbourne shipping address.

PM me (or I you) for more details.

Thanks for sharing with us, here!
--    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    ----    --
all systems nominal... rock on.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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#4
Hi Duncan,
Your calculations are technically correct but not quite how the cells operate in the real world.

This reply just kept going so: 
TL;DR; Short Answers
       Do these cells acquire a memory if not fully charged?
              No these cells do not suffer from a memory effect, they are rated for 30,000 cycles after which they should still have approx 80% of their rated capacity.
       Is a BMS mandatory for a bank like I'm trying to build with these batteries?
              A BMS is not mandatory but is recommended, other members have managed to avoid a BMS by proper initial balancing and only charging to 90%.
       What kind of price would you expect for purchasing 286 cells?
              Worst case we would be looking at $25,000 delivered to Melbourne, I'm hoping to improve on this once finalising details.
       Is there something wrong with my proposed setup that you might point out if it was to use your 40AH batteries?
              Read on McDuff.....



For starters the LTO cells are very different beasts to lead acid, you can discharge LTO cells all the way down to 0v and charge them back up to 2.8v at 10C (400 amps for a 40AH cell) in 6 minutes. That is assuming you have the means to provide 10C. They will do this for 30,000 cycles after which they are rated for 80%ish of there original capacity. They are also rated to perform at -40 degrees C, their current limits are reduced at these temperatures but in a pack like your are describing the de-rating would not be noticeable.

Because of this a 500AH lead acid pack does not equal a 500AH LTO pack, where a lead acid pack is only capable of at most 30% D.O.D before being damaged you only have 150AH usable, an LTO pack is 100% usable. 

Do you really need 500AH, this about right for a medium to large sized family house operating off-grid.There is nothing wrong with this, I just want to make sure you are not over committing.


Now the the specific voltages, yes their cut off voltage is 2.8, but there is almost no usable energy stored above 2.6v, 2.8 is the guideline to use to configure a BMS. The real bulk of the energy is stored between 2.2 and 2.6v, once you get down to 2.1v they drop voltage FAST. The same is also true for above 2.7v, if your pack is unbalanced you can have a cell very quickly run up to and over 3.0v. 

You typically want to bulk charging around 2.7v per cell and float charging around 2.6v per cell, depending you chargers characteristics. For pack voltages this is bulk 59.4 and float 57.2.

Forum member completelycharged has been running slightly lower voltages on his pack and avoided the need for a BMS at the sacrifice of ~10% capacity and a bit more pro-active maintenance schedule.

We have been running a prototype pack with 22s 8p B grade 30AH cells since November and have both bulk and float set to 57.4v on our charge controllers, we have been using a chinese BMS which I have modified to bypass 500ma but it is struggling to keep up with our charge controllers which can at times be pushing upwards of 90A into B-grade cell packs, a rainy day project is to dismantle, manually top balance the cells and replace any with mismatched characteristics.

I am currently working on building the Stuart Pittway/Colin Hickey diyBMS and the possibility of a modified version able to bypass up to 5A as we will eventually have 16kw of solar and 500ma will definitely not cut it.



Pricing; The deciding factors for pricing will be order quantity, freight cost and exchange rate. We have been given a price window dependent on order size, if we get enough interested parties to get close to the M.O.Q I am happy to bulk out the order with additional stock. Freight we have calculated based on previous orders. We have used the current cash exchange rate offered by the broker for calculation which is subject to change.

Hi DCKiwi,
I see no reason we wouldn't be able to ship to NZ, if possible drop shipping direct to NZ would work out cheaper I shall have to investigate further for you.
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#5
Thanks for that. Our lead acid bank is 1380AH at 48V so 500AH of lithium was my estimate of an equivalent. I'm afraid the price blows me out of the water even though 30,000 cycles sounds amazing. Best of luck to you.
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#6
(03-13-2019, 08:25 AM)Aussioffgrid Wrote: Thanks for that. Our lead acid bank is 1380AH at 48V so 500AH of lithium was my estimate of an equivalent. I'm afraid the price blows me out of the water even though 30,000 cycles sounds amazing. Best of luck to you.

It looks like you calculations were pretty close to the mark.

I completely understand your position with regard to pricing, for the same reason we want to ensure there is a market before committing to thousands of cells.

Using the revised pricing in my OP edit your 286 cells would be approx $24,252.80 inc GST.

We believe the pricing of an assembled 12kwh LTO battery pack with BMS should be comparable to a Fronius 12kwh LFP battery yet for more capable.
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#7
(03-14-2019, 06:34 AM)BaronVonChickenPants Wrote:
(03-13-2019, 08:25 AM)Aussioffgrid Wrote: Thanks for that. Our lead acid bank is 1380AH at 48V so 500AH of lithium was my estimate of an equivalent. I'm afraid the price blows me out of the water even though 30,000 cycles sounds amazing. Best of luck to you.

It looks like you calculations were pretty close to the mark.

I completely understand your position with regard to pricing, for the same reason we want to ensure there is a market before committing to thousands of cells.

Using the revised pricing in my OP edit your 286 cells would be approx $31,174 inc GST.

We believe the pricing of an assembled 12kwh LTO battery pack with BMS should be comparable to a Fronius 12kwh LFP battery yet for more capable.
My math is 286 40ah = 286 x 40 x 2.3 = 26312 watts
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#8
(03-14-2019, 01:14 PM)Jim Jr. Wrote: My math is 286 40ah = 286 x 40 x 2.3 = 26312 watts

Sorry for the confusion.

Yes your math is correct, the system requested is much bigger than the 12kwh Fronius referenced, I was trying to provide "like for like" comparison of a similar existing product, Aussioffgrid would require at least 2 Fronius units to achieve the desired capacity.
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#9
[quote pid='47235' dateline='1552388618']


I am currently working on building the Stuart Pittway/Colin Hickey diyBMS and the possibility of a modified version able to bypass up to 5A as we will eventually have 16kw of solar and 500ma will definitely not cut it.



Hello
 The active cell voltage ballancers really do work, Just an example, these will handle 6 amps
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QNBBM-6S...autifyAB=0


JimJr
[/quote]
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#10
if this work no need to build nothing

https://secondlifestorage.com/t-balancer...nfigurable
Building Lifepo4 Powerwall - atm 1400 cells growing

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