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Safely housing the battery bank
#11
CO² does only have a very limited cooling effect. It would not keep other cells from heating up.
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#12
(05-14-2019, 03:17 PM)5buBZMKeJZgapTGsbGzKf Wrote: CO² does only have a very limited cooling effect. It would not keep other cells from heating up.

Not the cooling effect (not that limited) but more the replacing of oxygen in the cabinet is what i am looking for...
i know a lithium fire needs no oxygen (has his own) but it might put out the burning plastic holders and stuff faster ... right?
___________________________________
18x 300Wp solar off grid and 10x 180Wp solar tracker grid-tie
10KW 3phase hybrid inverter. 40Kwh 18650 storage (for now)
My setup: https://secondlifestorage.com/t-Instant-powerwall
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#13
If you can get it, halon gas.
That will replace oxygen very quick.
Easier to get: nitrogen.
But you will need to air tighten your cabinet.
(I am planning a experiment in a vacuum chamber, let see what happens)

The problem would be to apply it, maybe a motor on high rpm with a coil or something to pull the pin out that is attached to a wire?
Before a c02 extinguisher is empty it will blow his load in a minute, (6 kilo).

A Co2 cylinder must be shaken every year by holding it upside down again and again, to let the components stay mixed together, if not done every year the components will settle.
Still learning English. Learning Li ion and solar technology.

1400 cells in packs Exclamation above 2500mah and 90%soh.
~400 cells between 1800-2500 and above 90%soh(sell?)
600 cells between 2200 - 3000mah, 80-90%soh (sell?)
2600 waiting for testing.
approx: 500 cells not safe for use: dead, heaters, to high ir or sd

Time is our enemy, must work to, the sun is our friend, must relax to.
With best regards
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#14
That's not the problem.

To put out a lithium-ion fire, you need either sand or just regular water.

Why? Temperature control.

Since lithium ion compounds can combust, and provide their own goddamn oxygen, you need to remove heat from the reaction.

Reducing heat as much as possible is critical to prevent chemical reaction acceleration.

So, water or a sand trap to reduce heat should be used.

This is always why I have a small jar filled with water besides me when I teardown lithium ion packs, and during the summer, some sand. Smile

I've had one time when a nickel strip failed on me, and caught fire right before I cut them. Had to throw the cell in a buck of water, then sand.

Some powertool manufacturersuse strips so large that even a small twist will cause a short, and since nickel has high resistance, bad things can happen.
The power of lithium ion is in our hands!
We'll show them what we're made of!
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#15
(05-15-2019, 06:29 AM)100kwh-hunter Wrote: If you can get it, halon gas.
That will replace oxygen very quick.

Why are you suggesting the use of a banned substance on a DIY forum ?
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#16
(05-20-2019, 09:17 AM)Sean Wrote:
(05-15-2019, 06:29 AM)100kwh-hunter Wrote: If you can get it, halon gas.
That will replace oxygen very quick.

Why are you suggesting the use of a banned substance on a DIY forum ?


While the production of Halon ceased on January 1, 1994, under the Clean Air Act, it is still legal to purchase and use recycled Halon and Halon fire extinguishers. In fact, the FAA continues to recommend Halon fire extinguishers for aircraft.

That being said Halon would not work anyway as it is a gas that replaces the O2 in the surrounding enclosure. It does not restrict the production of O2 which is what Li-ion batteries do. It is a fire than can only be smothered using a non conductive dry chemical.
Lithium-ion batteries are considered a Class B fire, so a standard ABC or BC dry chemical fire extinguisher should be used. Class B is the classification given to flammable liquids. Lithium-ion batteries contain liquid electrolytes that provide a conductive pathway, so the batteries receive a B fire classification.

Wolf
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 6/10/2019
Total Number of Cells                          5940
Cells  >80% of Capacity                      4334
Cells <80% of Capacity                       1605
Cells ≥2200mAh & ≥ 80% & ≤75mΩ    2800 +236
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool



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#17
There's only a very very limited number of legal uses of Halon these days, including crew compartments in aircraft, along with some space and military applivations - suggesting its use for our purposes is somewhat erroneous.
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#18
(05-20-2019, 01:01 PM)Sean Wrote: ....... - suggesting its use for our purposes is somewhat erroneous.

I totally agree Sean. As I said it would not work on a Li fire anyway.
But when it was legal it was pretty nice to have in the auto shop when a carburetor caught fire.
Poof out goes the fire and limited damage. But we don't have carburetors anymore so......



Wolf
If 18 X 650 = 2200+mAh then we have power! 
May all your Cells have an IR of 75mΩ or less Smile
Last count as of 6/10/2019
Total Number of Cells                          5940
Cells  >80% of Capacity                      4334
Cells <80% of Capacity                       1605
Cells ≥2200mAh & ≥ 80% & ≤75mΩ    2800 +236
For Info Google Drive
Not your average Wolf       
            Cool



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#19
I didn't know that, it was just a thought, about halon, sorry.
1994, time flies.
So sand seems the option to go then to keep things simple.
In a plastic bag on top of the powerwall.

Poof out goes the fire and limited damage. But we don't have carburetors anymore so......
There are still persons who collect and drive old cars with carburetors, just saying.Smile
Just to start a 8.8 liter v8.......
Still learning English. Learning Li ion and solar technology.

1400 cells in packs Exclamation above 2500mah and 90%soh.
~400 cells between 1800-2500 and above 90%soh(sell?)
600 cells between 2200 - 3000mah, 80-90%soh (sell?)
2600 waiting for testing.
approx: 500 cells not safe for use: dead, heaters, to high ir or sd

Time is our enemy, must work to, the sun is our friend, must relax to.
With best regards
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#20
For fire control..
If one cell goes "a wall" on a bad way, i was thinking to cover every cell hole in plaster or something.
But plaster need to be applied when wet, electra and moisture? or there brittle steel casings and moisture?
How about to cover each cell up with some foam or rockwool?, so when one cell goes puff, the other cells will be not damaged by the sparks?
Of course the "corck" must come off with ease.

I think one cell can not set something on fire, unless you have tinder wood/dry grass/paper nearby?
I have some time this weekend, lets see if i can make a test thingy...any ideas?

Best

Small supplemental about halon gas:
Its still legal around here, BUT you must have a permit for it, like owning gun powder.
They outlaw it from 2006/7, after 2010 you could have a permit for it, if there is a reason for ashore.
For offshore its a different story, they got other rules,
Still learning English. Learning Li ion and solar technology.

1400 cells in packs Exclamation above 2500mah and 90%soh.
~400 cells between 1800-2500 and above 90%soh(sell?)
600 cells between 2200 - 3000mah, 80-90%soh (sell?)
2600 waiting for testing.
approx: 500 cells not safe for use: dead, heaters, to high ir or sd

Time is our enemy, must work to, the sun is our friend, must relax to.
With best regards
Reply


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