Safely housing the battery bank

chamele0n

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I have seen a lot of talk on the Youtube channels about where you should house your battery banks.The general consensus that I see isthat itshould be in a separate "shed", several feet from your home. In case it were to catch on fire, since Li-ion is very hard to put out. This would keep your home/dwelling safe from the fire.

Anyone ever though of something like this? It's a bit more expensive than your standard stick built shed.https://www.budgetshippingcontainers.co.uk/sales/12-ft-cladded-shipping-containers-manchester/Sadly, I don't live in the UK where this one is sold. But, a small sized steel shipping container with wood cladding, that can be painted the same color to match your home. That would be ideal in a larger community of homes where you don't have much land, and where you may have community restrictions on the look and feel of things (like sheds). For instance, I live on a golf course, and there is a rule where any shed must be of the same construction style and materials, and be painted the same color as our home.

Pretty stupid, but I think this shipping container made of steel would be able to contain the fire until it runs out of oxygen. The wood cladding helps with the local ordinances that might be in effect.

Thoughts?
 
Many think of it. It Will work but it wont contain the fire as such. Just think of it like a container to house the stuff :)


Whats needed is proper ventilation in it if a fire starts. Thats what Will determine IF it can cope with the fire
 
I was thinking of something like this as the battery box... ground mount in the back yard or something. Easy to re-paint too.


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brickwork?
Personally i dont like steel, steel heats up also and is a conductor.
Yes, with ventilation...what does fire need.
To create a temperature controlled vacuum chamber would be a little bridge to far?(-:

How about to put a fire out once its started? I don't believe with water.
With a gas cylinder? like halon gas or similar?

I think in my case my first setup would be with wooden sheet and at the inside some rockwool or vermiculite or some ceramic insulation.
With a second hand chimney on top of it to direct the flames away.
My second setup will be in the shedfor the filters for the pound.
(profile pic)
Its all brickwork, but with a lot of trees around it, if that catches a fire....

I hope this was helpfull,

Best
 
Having the batteries in steel boxes but located inside a clean, dry, bug sealed garden shed seems like a good idea.

I've done it this way:
Garden shed on a concrete slab ~ 1.2m from the house.
Shed has a 25mm box steel frame & typical sheet metal exterior walls.
It's got all (almost!) of the gaps sealed with builders foam & the roof has heaps of extra silicone.
It's lined it with 25mm fire retardant polystyrene sheet insulation (made big difference).
Electronics is mounted on sheets of "form ply" (stuff builders use for form-work for concrete slabs).
Batteries (large LiFePo4 x 4) are in individual steel cases.

Another material that's going to be fire resistant is cement sheet board - probably has a bunch of different trade names, called Hardiplank or Villaboard downunder here.
 
I'd keep a large pack in the basement concrete storage room. Advantages:

- concrete - nothing to burn
- optimal temperature for Li-ion (no overheat)
- can store there the actual battery in anything (including a metal shelf)

A possible problem would be humidity, but that's only in some cases, depending on your area. This has simple solutions, though, so it's not a major issue in any case.
 
I've been thinking of storing and chargingmy batteries in a wooden box lined with drywall. It should work almost as well as a metal box and be much easier to build to a custom size.
 
My battery bank is under the house with corrugated metal on top, cinder block on sides, concrete/stone flooring. There is a smoke detector right near it.

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The area is nice temp (12 to 24C) all year with no work and convenient for house wiring/infrastructure/maintenance.

An external shed would be a bigeffort/expense and hot (40C ambient July/Aug) and cold in winter (-7C) soshed/equipment/batteries would need cooling/heat.


I agree that its not in any way fireproof (you can see wood/side of house in left of picture and shelves are wood)but I think its fire resistant to some degree.

With fused cells and modest charge/discharge (500ma 'ish), modest DOD (4.0v to 3.3v per pack), and batrium/monitro/controls... its not clear to me that spontaneous fire is a huge risk... BUT

I'd be interested in assessment of fire with a well managed battery bank.

Is fire resistant a reasonable approach?
 
Still happy with my setup... strong double plated steel cabinet, doors alsodouble steel strong locks and seals,these cabinets are made for safe keeping of documents, already kind of fireproof.
Made some venitlation holes, they are open onthe bottomand on top with a "over pressure" flappy thingy ( like used on dryer exhaust ).
Packs are fixed on the front and have spacers on the back, they will not fall over or move.

Maybe i will put somethingbetweenthe packs to prevent one pack to light the other... might make it safer.

Will Co2 work as a extinguisher ?


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5buBZMKeJZgapTGsbGzKf said:
CO does only have a very limited cooling effect. It would not keep other cells from heating up.

Notthe cooling effect (not that limited) but more the replacing ofoxygen in the cabinet is what i am looking for...
i know a lithium fire needs no oxygen (has his own) but it might put out the burning plastic holders and stuff faster ... right?
 
If you can get it, halon gas.
That will replace oxygen very quick.
Easier to get: nitrogen.
But you will need to air tighten your cabinet.
(I am planning a experiment in a vacuum chamber, let see what happens)

The problem would be to apply it, maybe a motor on high rpm with a coil or something to pull the pin out that is attached to a wire?
Before a c02 extinguisher is empty it will blow his load in a minute, (6 kilo).

A Co2 cylinder must be shaken every year by holding it upside down again and again, to let the components stay mixed together, if not done every year the components will settle.
 
That's not the problem.

To put out a lithium-ion fire, you need either sand or just regular water.

Why? Temperature control.

Since lithium ion compounds can combust, and provide their own goddamn oxygen, you need to remove heat from the reaction.

Reducing heat as much as possible is critical to prevent chemical reaction acceleration.

So, water or a sand trap to reduce heat should be used.

This is always why I have a small jar filled with water besides me when I teardown lithium ion packs, and during the summer, some sand. :)

I've had one time when a nickel strip failed on me, and caught fire right before I cut them. Had to throw the cell in a buck of water, then sand.

Some powertool manufacturersuse strips so large that even a small twist will cause a short, and since nickel has high resistance, bad things can happen.
 
100kwh-hunter said:
If you can get it, halon gas.
That will replace oxygen very quick.

Why are you suggesting the use of a banned substance on a DIY forum ?
 
Sean said:
100kwh-hunter said:
If you can get it, halon gas.
That will replace oxygen very quick.

Why are you suggesting the use of a banned substance on a DIY forum ?


While the production ofHalonceased on January 1, 1994, under the Clean Air Act, it isstilllegal to purchase and use recycledHalonandHalonfire extinguishers. In fact, the FAA continues to recommendHalonfire extinguishers for aircraft.

That being said Halon would not work anyway as it is a gas that replaces the O2 in the surrounding enclosure. It does not restrict the production of O2 which is what Li-ion batteries do. It is a fire than can only be smothered using a non conductive dry chemical.
Lithium-ion batteries are considered a Class B fire, so a standard ABC or BC dry chemical fire extinguisher should be used. Class B is the classification given to flammable liquids. Lithium-ion batteries contain liquid electrolytes that provide a conductive pathway, so the batteries receive a B fire classification.

Wolf
 
There's onlya very very limited number of legal uses of Halon these days, including crew compartments in aircraft, along with some space and military applivations - suggesting its use for our purposes is somewhat erroneous.
 
Sean said:
....... - suggesting its use for our purposes is somewhat erroneous.

I totally agree Sean. As I said it would not work on a Li fire anyway.
But when it was legal it was pretty nice to have in the auto shop when a carburetorcaughtfire.
Poof out goes the fire and limited damage. But we don't have carburetors anymore so......



Wolf
 
I didn't know that, it was just a thought, about halon, sorry.
1994, time flies.
So sand seems the option to go then to keep things simple.
In a plastic bag on top of the powerwall.

Poof out goes the fire and limited damage. But we don't have carburetors anymore so......
There are still persons who collect and driveold cars with carburetors, just saying.:)
Just to start a 8.8 liter v8.......
 
For fire control..
If one cell goes "a wall" on a bad way, i was thinking to cover every cell hole in plaster or something.
But plaster need to be applied when wet, electra and moisture? or there brittle steel casings and moisture?
How about to cover each cell up with some foam or rockwool?, so when one cell goes puff, the other cells will be not damaged by the sparks?
Of course the "corck" must come off with ease.

I think one cell can not set something on fire, unless you have tinder wood/dry grass/paper nearby?
I have some time this weekend, lets see if i can make a test thingy...any ideas?

Best


Small supplemental about halon gas:
Its still legal around here, BUT you must have a permit for it, like owning gun powder.
They outlaw it from 2006/7, after 2010 you could have a permit for it, if there is a reason for ashore.
For offshore its a different story, they got other rules,
 
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