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Solexx Powerwall Project
#1
Tongue 
I've just started my powerwall project.  So far I'm stripping the Molicel 2200mah cells from the modem packs and am experimenting with packs of 160P. I intend to build 14 packs to start so I will have to buy 340+ more cells. I intend to use batrium as a BMS and already have charge controllers and a 48 volt 12Kv inverter that is split phase. I have purchased a pallet of Canadian Solar 265 watt panels and can fit 24 of these on my flat garage roof.  I'm also working on a wood gas reactor to power a 20kw ICE generator for battery charging. Another related project is a 1kw PMA 48 volt wind generator that is hooked up to a bank of 8 T-105 batteries with a dump load into my hydronic heating system. My plan is to reduce my energy footprint as low as possible.

Any help or suggestions is appreciated. I'll try to post some photos as I progress.

Cheers
Pete
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#2
Youre going to need some thick bus bars if your doing 160p
Solexx X likes this post
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#3
Welcome!

12Kv or kW?

If 12kW inverter you need to design your battery pack for up to 2x that. As said you would need MAASSIVE busbars to cope with 300+A :=)
Just have that in mind when doing the design that the battery pack is rather small to that massive inverter. I got 100+kWh of storage to my 15kW system and adding up soon to be 200.
Solexx X likes this post
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh | Automatic trip breakers, and alot more
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#4
Big plans.... love it !!!  Smile

Welcome
Solexx X likes this post
___________________________________
18x 300Wp solar off grid and 10x 180Wp solar tracker grid-tie
10KW 3phase hybrid inverter. 40Kwh 18650 storage (for now)
My setup: https://secondlifestorage.com/t-Instant-powerwall
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#5
(02-12-2018, 07:05 PM)Jason Morris Wrote: Youre going to need some thick bus bars if your doing 160p

I don't intend to go anywhere near 12kW output for now. I may even wire the battery blocks as 80p X 2 with two longmons per block and then rewire them to 160p when I build the second 14s160p battery.  Can't I just use a current limiting breaker/fuse on the output until I double the size?

(02-12-2018, 07:36 PM)wim Wrote: Big plans.... love it !!!  Smile

Welcome

Thanks!

(02-12-2018, 07:33 PM)daromer Wrote: Welcome!

12Kv or kW?

If 12kW inverter you need to design your battery pack for up to 2x that. As said you would need MAASSIVE busbars to cope with 300+A :=)
Just have that in mind when doing the design that the battery pack is rather small to that massive inverter.  I got 100+kWh of storage to my 15kW system and adding up soon to be 200.

12kW,  My intention is above 30 kW when completed. I'll have to limit the current output until I get enough batteries for the second 14s160p. My daily energy use is down to about 20kwh and I can store energy credit through net metering in the spring,summer,fall.
The large inverter can't be grid tied so that would require another grid tie inverter and an approved transfer switch to use the grid tie option.
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#6
(02-14-2018, 05:11 AM)Solexx X Wrote:
(02-12-2018, 07:05 PM)Jason Morris Wrote: Youre going to need some thick bus bars if your doing 160p

I don't intend to go anywhere near 12kW output for now. I may even wire the battery blocks as 80p X 2 with two longmons per block and then rewire them to 160p when I build the second 14s160p battery.  Can't I just use a current limiting breaker/fuse on the output until I double the size?

(02-12-2018, 07:36 PM)wim Wrote: Big plans.... love it !!!  Smile

Welcome

Thanks!

(02-12-2018, 07:33 PM)daromer Wrote: Welcome!

12Kv or kW?

If 12kW inverter you need to design your battery pack for up to 2x that. As said you would need MAASSIVE busbars to cope with 300+A :=)
Just have that in mind when doing the design that the battery pack is rather small to that massive inverter.  I got 100+kWh of storage to my 15kW system and adding up soon to be 200.

12kW,  My intention is above 30 kW when completed. I'll have to limit the current output until I get enough batteries for the second 14s160p. My daily energy use is down to about 20kwh and I can store energy credit through net metering in the spring,summer,fall.
The large inverter can't be grid tied so that would require another grid tie inverter and an approved transfer switch to use the grid tie option.

12 kW is a big inverter already. You are thinking of 12kW instantaneous use? ie not confusing kWhs (kW used over a time period) vs kW (power used at a given instant of time)?

So just thinking some numbers here (don't know where abouts your site is so this might vary a lot based on longitude, etc):
If you've got 24x 265W panels on a flat roof your input per day might be approx 70% (approx flat roof derating) x 265W x 80% (temp derating) x 24 panels = roughly approx 3.5kW per hour of good sun. Say 6 hours = 21.3 kWhrs per day generated on a good day.
If you're using anything like 12kW, the batteries would last about 2 hours......
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#7
12kW continous inverter can easily push 24kW shorter times! Yes you can limit and you NEED to limit that system alot. Question is do you really want to limit by a fuse that shuts it all down just because of that? On some inverters you can limit Battery usage. Can yours? The MPP solar I got I can set software limits on battery usage when it goes to grid instead. If you can do that it would be a lot better.

Limiting with fuses could cause issues in long run and most systems you dont want the fuse to become a limiter as such unless really needed. You can potentially add limiting system on high loads that for instance if you go above 6kW from the battery the system will disable high current loads untill it goes down again. This to save the battery and not shutting it all down when you hit the max.

Just a tip!

Love to see more images of the setup when you get somewhere Smile
Solexx X and Korishan like this post
The Ultimate DIY Solar and build place
YouTube / Forum system setup / My webpage  Diy Tech & Repairs

Current: 10kW Mpp Hybrid | 4kW PIP4048 | 2x PCM60x | 83kWh LiFePo4 | 10kWh 14s 18650 |  66*260W Poly
Upcoming: 14S 18650~30kWh | Automatic trip breakers, and alot more
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#8
(02-14-2018, 09:44 AM)electrotech Wrote:
(02-14-2018, 05:11 AM)Solexx X Wrote:
(02-12-2018, 07:05 PM)Jason Morris Wrote: Youre going to need some thick bus bars if your doing 160p

I don't intend to go anywhere near 12kW output for now. I may even wire the battery blocks as 80p X 2 with two longmons per block and then rewire them to 160p when I build the second 14s160p battery.  Can't I just use a current limiting breaker/fuse on the output until I double the size?

(02-12-2018, 07:36 PM)wim Wrote: Big plans.... love it !!!  Smile

Welcome

Thanks!

(02-12-2018, 07:33 PM)daromer Wrote: Welcome!

12Kv or kW?

If 12kW inverter you need to design your battery pack for up to 2x that. As said you would need MAASSIVE busbars to cope with 300+A :=)
Just have that in mind when doing the design that the battery pack is rather small to that massive inverter.  I got 100+kWh of storage to my 15kW system and adding up soon to be 200.

12kW,  My intention is above 30 kW when completed. I'll have to limit the current output until I get enough batteries for the second 14s160p. My daily energy use is down to about 20kwh and I can store energy credit through net metering in the spring,summer,fall.
The large inverter can't be grid tied so that would require another grid tie inverter and an approved transfer switch to use the grid tie option.

12 kW is a big inverter already. You are thinking of 12kW instantaneous use? ie not confusing kWhs (kW used over a time period) vs kW (power used at a given instant of time)?

So just thinking some numbers here (don't know where abouts your site is so this might vary a lot based on longitude, etc):
If you've got 24x 265W panels on a flat roof your input per day might be approx 70% (approx flat roof derating) x 265W x 80% (temp derating) x 24 panels = roughly approx 3.5kW per hour of good sun. Say 6 hours = 21.3 kWhrs per day generated on a good day.
If you're using anything like 12kW, the batteries would last about 2 hours......

The roof is flat but the racks will be tilted at 35 degrees winter, spring and fall and 12 degrees summer. It's 4 rows of 6 panels. I'm located at 42 North so winter sun is limited. Ideal would be about 60 degree tilt in winter, 40 degree in spring/fall and 12 deg in summer where I live.  The 35 degrees is a compromise to prevent shading of the rows behind in December.
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#9
I just bought some more battery packs from alarmhookup. I now can build a powerwall that is 80p 14s 3p with 3360 cells and with the new cells will average about 2300-2400mah. I'm about half way through breaking down the modem packs and cleaning the cells. It looks like i will need 42 longmons to do this for my inverter. I was going to build 160p packs but the longmons can't balance a pack that size according to batrium website info.  

Alarmhookup gave me a good discount (30%) so i paid 105USD for the most recent buy of the 2600mah LG cell packs. Since he charges 20$ per box for shipping, it's still quite expensive by the time I bring them into Canada. That said, the quality of these cells seems to be good and I believe that they are new old stock. 

Any help with configuration is appreciated. I haven't soldered up the packs/fuses yet since I have many cells to test but I will buy a shi*load of Opus to test the cells. I also bought 100 charging chips to speed up the process. I have a 40 amp 12 volt power supply that I will use to power the Opus and will use a computer power supply for the chargers.  I have to go to India in a couple days for work (don't ask) for a week but will be working on this full time in a couple of weeks until its complete.

I see many projects here with evolved ideas that will make the powerwall doable for a non-electrician like me. I'm a power engineer but not an electrician.  I'm an old guy so please go easy on me. If you have constructive criticism I welcome it.
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#10
Hi Powerwall builders,

I have been reading the FAQ on the Batrium site and believe that my 160p X 14s configuration may not balance in a reasonable time frame.

I was looking at Mikes new 300p pack design and was unsure if it would be possible to keep it balanced. 
I rewrote this post after posting on Mikes post so I could ask some questions here.

This link "https://www.batrium.com/pages/cell-monit...iderations" from the Batrium FAQ says the ideal for a longmon is 200 Amp/hr. or less so they would be able to balance in a week.

I would appreciate some advice from the builders that are running 80p 14s battery systems as I don't want to find out later that my packs won't balance.

Please take a look at my plan below and comment if you see problems 


My new plan is to build the 160p packs electrically split into 2 X 80p packs each with their own positive, negative and longmon.  Just really 2X80p packs with the holders stacked. I wanted larger blocks so they are more compact.  The downside is that I will have to swap out a 160 cell block (2 X80p) if I get a bad 80p cell.  The other obvious downside is that I will need 2 longmons instead of one per 160 cells.  Another problem is that at present I have 3400 cells so I will have to get another 1100 cells to complete the 28 X 160 blocks.  I will also then need 56 longmons and that will add a bunch of cost.

I'm looking at the starter pack with shunt, longmons and expansion board plus the extra 42 longmons.
My question are:
What is the maximum number of cells (Xp) that you would use per lomgmon and why?
Is 80p 14s 4p going to cause any problems that I am not aware of?
Do you think 2 X 8 AWG copper wire (wound) is big enough for my cell busbars?
Does anyone have experience with the Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 TriStar MPPT Solar Panel Charge Controller for charging 14s 18650s?
I have 2 of them and 6400 watts of panels that will be dedicated to charging. No grid tie at this time. Just an ATS
Any help insight is appreciated.
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