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Tp4056 reverse voltage protection
#41
You need a mosfet with low on resistance and low gate voltage threshold.
A lowish battery voltage eg 2.0V has to be enough to turn the mosfet fully on....

The reason Schottky diodes are not so good is they have a voltage drop inside them of 0.3-0.5 or so volts which means the TP4056 never sees the correct cell voltage & will not charge the cell to the expected voltage.

When mosfets are "switched on" (with sufficient gate voltage) they are effectively a short circuit so the TP4056 see the actual cell volts (or so close it makes no real difference).

An IRLZ44 may not be turning on much if the cell is only 3.0V
Maybe try an IRLB8721, it's good for several A current with only ~2.8V or less on the gate
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#42
Indeed, the issue is VGS : the IRFZ44N has a gate threshold voltage between 2 and 4V, which is much too high, so the MOSFET is not fully "switched on" and the TP4056 does not have a measure of the battery voltage and cannot charge it correctly.
By comparison, VGS is 1V for the IRL2203 and between 0.5 and 1V for the IRL2203.
Kind regards,
Vincent
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#43
Firstly Hi to Korishan, was nice chatting to you on Ave Joes live feed.

Vincent, I have read/watch and re-read your vlog on the IRL2203 circuit you used as a RevProt circuit for 18650's.
Are these still the way to go for this circuit, or is there a more suitable unit you would recommend?

I am just beginning to put together a 20 bay 18650 charger for a DIY powerwall build I wish to construct.
I only have 488 cells collected so far , less than 10% of what I plan to build.

I won't bore you all with details of my project, I do however wish to build a reverse polarity circuit to fit between the 18650 the TP4056 and INA219's that I am going to use.
This battery charger is going to be under the control of an Arduino Mega and associated jungle of wiring.

Cheers from Australia.. Mike.
YOLO is wrong, You live every day. You only Die once so it should be YODO. Angel
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#44
(02-18-2019, 02:17 AM)Gremlin Wrote: Vincent, I have read/watch and re-read your vlog on the IRL2203 circuit you used as a RevProt circuit for 18650's.
Are these still the way to go for this circuit, or is there a more suitable unit you would recommend?

Hi,

I don't particularly recommend that component, it's just what I had laying around, but it just seems to fit the bill.
On my charger prototype, I personally use the FS8205A SMD chip (it's the one used on the stand-alone "chargers with protection" modules, albeit under control of another chip). It's a dual back-to-back MOSFET so you can use one to prevent "reverse" current and the other one to block current in the "forward" direction, but you can also polarize the second one so that it's always "closed" of course.
And price is almost unbeatable : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-FS...03055.html (this is for 10pcs)
They are really tiny to solder but with a reflow oven or with a hot air gun and a magnifying glass, that's OK.
If you need through-hole, IRL2203 is a good option but by no way the result of an search for the optimal MOSFET. Basically, look for a low "on" resistance (RDSon < 50mOhm, the lower the better), a low threshold voltage (say VGS(th) < 2V) and a high drain current (ID > 2A to be safe)... and then check prices and availability.

Kind regards,

Vincent

PS : oh and by the way, please tell us about your project details (just open a new topic about it).
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#45
(02-18-2019, 10:36 AM)vdeconinck Wrote:
(02-18-2019, 02:17 AM)Gremlin Wrote: Vincent, I have read/watch and re-read your vlog on the IRL2203 circuit you used as a RevProt circuit for 18650's.
Are these still the way to go for this circuit, or is there a more suitable unit you would recommend?

Hi,

I don't particularly recommend that component, it's just what I had laying around, but it just seems to fit the bill.
On my charger prototype, I personally use the FS8205A SMD chip (it's the one used on the stand-alone "chargers with protection" modules, albeit under control of another chip). It's a dual back-to-back MOSFET so you can use one to prevent "reverse" current and the other one to block current in the "forward" direction, but you can also polarize the second one so that it's always "closed" of course.
And price is almost unbeatable : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-FS...03055.html (this is for 10pcs)
They are really tiny to solder but with a reflow oven or with a hot air gun and a magnifying glass, that's OK.
If you need through-hole, IRL2203 is a good option but by no way the result of an search for the optimal MOSFET. Basically, look for a low "on" resistance (RDSon < 50mOhm, the lower the better), a low threshold voltage (say VGS(th) < 2V) and a high drain current (ID > 2A to be safe)... and then check prices and availability.

Kind regards,

Vincent

PS : oh and by the way, please tell us about your project details (just open a new topic about it).

Okay, begging you indulgence as I am new to this level of tronics It seems that either of these two mosfet may be a good selection:- a IRL540N although its a SMD or a IRLZ44N which is in a user friendly TO220 configuration.

May I please have your knowledgeable opinion on these.

Mike.
YOLO is wrong, You live every day. You only Die once so it should be YODO. Angel
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#46
(02-18-2019, 11:05 PM)Gremlin Wrote:
(02-18-2019, 10:36 AM)vdeconinck Wrote: Basically, look for a low "on" resistance (RDSon < 50mOhm, the lower the better), a low threshold voltage (say VGS(th) < 2V) and a high drain current (ID > 2A to be safe)...

Okay, begging you indulgence as I am new to this level of tronics It seems that either of these two mosfet may be a good selection:- a IRL540N although its a SMD or a IRLZ44N which is in a user friendly TO220 configuration.

Hi, Mike,

Comparing the datasheets of IRL540N vs IRLZ44N gives, respectively :
RDSon = 44mOhm vs 22mOhm
VGS(th) = 1-2V vs 1-2V 
ID = 36A vs 47A

Basically, I would say they are very similar and will both work, but I would go for the lowest RDSon, so IRLZ44N

Now on Aliexpress, they are at 1.15 EUR for 5pcs vs 1.32 EUR for 10pcs, both free shipping (to Europe at least), which also makes the IRLZ44N nearly twice cheaper (though at that price point that probably does not really matter).

In any case, the IRLZ44N wins on every important point for this usage (no wonder it's so popular), so I wouldn't hesitate unless you have IRL540N at hand.

Kind regards,

Vincent

PS : Note that they both exist in TO220 (see datasheets and Aliexpress links above).
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#47
(02-18-2019, 11:54 PM)vdeconinck Wrote: Hi, Mike,

Comparing the datasheets of IRL540N vs IRLZ44N gives, respectively :
RDSon = 44mOhm vs 22mOhm
VGS(th) = 1-2V vs 1-2V 
ID = 36A vs 47A

Basically, I would say they are very similar and will both work, but I would go for the lowest RDSon, so IRLZ44N

Now on Aliexpress, they are at 1.15 EUR for 5pcs vs 1.32 EUR for 10pcs, both free shipping (to Europe at least), which also makes the IRLZ44N nearly twice cheaper (though at that price point that probably does not really matter).

In any case, the IRLZ44N wins on every important point for this usage (no wonder it's so popular), so I wouldn't hesitate unless you have IRL540N at hand.

Kind regards,

Vincent

PS : Note that they both exist in TO220 (see datasheets and Aliexpress links above).

Thank you kindly for the fast reply (I am semi-retired so have lots of time to mess about) 
I did have IRL510 520 and 540 mentioned in an article I read. Will hunt the 540 spec's up and compare.
I also took your advice and started a thread on my build, not sure why others would care there are lots out there, but hey, I have nothing to hide, and people smarter than me having a overview might stop me from starting fires..
The build thread is in this section.. 

Cheers. Mike
YOLO is wrong, You live every day. You only Die once so it should be YODO. Angel
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#48
Righto 30 IRL540N's on order, I only need 20 but as they are not available locally, spares are a good point.

Also contemplating increasing Arduino Mega count from one to two, simply because the amount of monitoring I want to run, one may be a bit overwhelmed.

Mike.
YOLO is wrong, You live every day. You only Die once so it should be YODO. Angel
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#49
Quick question for you Vincent Sir..

Is it possible or even usefull to include a bi-colour LED to your circuit Green for good boy and red for you idiot the cell is back to front?
If so would you be so kind as to post the circuit with the 540n and led? I can follow cuircuits to bild them, but not smart enough to design.

Cheers.. Mike.
YOLO is wrong, You live every day. You only Die once so it should be YODO. Angel
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#50
(02-21-2019, 08:48 AM)Gremlin Wrote: Is it possible or even usefull to include a bi-colour LED to your circuit Green for good boy and red for you idiot the cell is back to front?
If so would you be so kind as to post the circuit with the 540n and led? I can follow cuircuits to bild them, but not smart enough to design.

Hi,

- Is it possible ? Sure, and it's really easy because as you know the "D" in LED is for Diode, so just putting a diode next to the battery, with a limiting resistor in series, will do exactly what you want: it will light up when battery orientation is right or wrong, according to the led orientation. If you want to achieve the bicolor behaviour you describe, just put 2 leds in parallel (one red, one green), in opposite directions. If you want to reduce the component count, there are even "leds bulbs" that contain two such leds in parallel. e.g. these ones : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100PCS-b...07996.html
A note about limiting resistor : If you're not used to working with leds, never forget that, like all diodes, they behave as a "short circuit" when polarized correctly, and as such they do not limit the current, and will blow up if you don't limit it externally, hence that resistor. Red/green leds cause a voltage drop of around 2V, so starting from a full battery at 4.2V, the voltage on the resistor will be 4.2 - 2 = 2.2V . Most modern leds light up with 2mA, so R can be computed with ohm's law as R=U/I = 2.2/0.002 = 1100 ohm. As a first try, you can thus start with a 1K resistor and adjust visually.

- Now it is useful ? My personal view is that a red led (or even a buzzer) when battery wrongly oriented would be great - note that it's mentioned at the end of my blog post ;-). But I'm not so keen on placing a green one when battery is correctly inserted. First because it will suck energy while you are trying to fill the battery, and second because once a battery is charged, the led will start discharging it immediately. That's particularly true if you happen to unplug the charger from the mains, because you could end up draining and killing the batteries :-(
So my advice is "go for the red one", and the circuit should look like this :


Kind regards,

Vincent
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