Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Vanon Batteries .... Yeh - did they dupe me?
#1
So as you all may know I've had the opportunity to do a review for Vanon Batteries - I completed the review and uploaded it with fantastic confidence that I did an honest job of it. If you haven't seen the video you can view it here - https://youtu.be/NwNy_OLx4FU

In the comments section of that video I had the chance to chat to other Vanon users of different options on the batteries - and put it out there if anyone purchased due to my review to open the packs and take some photos of what cells they contained - Some reached out yesterday and these are the images & emails I received from them. 

We will call him W - to protect identy 


And this guy can be Jake Smile


At this point, I must say I'm disappointed I have no way of knowing if the battery packs received were old stock, new stock - or I just got lucky 'Yeh, lucky' with 30's but it's time to 'test' those 30q's. Two have been removed from the 6ah battery & 2 from the 4ah battery I received just as I was finishing the edit for the video above. Soon I'll release another video with some photos and stuff of the cells out of the battery & naked. Let us see where this takes us. 

Images of Samsung 30q's from the Vanon 6ah Battery I recieved for free for review


Images of LG LGDBHGL1865
Results from cell database search --- https://secondlifestorage.com/celldataba...p=&fsort=1 
Results from Google --- https://www.google.com.au/search?q=LGDBH...e&ie=UTF-8 

 

Last five images are LG from my Ryobi Pack & Vanon 4ah Pack
 



Pete.... More to come...
If you'd like to support the forum please feel free to use my affiliate links to purchase all kinds of stuff for your projects 
Amazon - https://amzn.to/2qURmH2
eBay - https://goo.gl/6mrQHH 
Aliexpress - http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bNLW537E
Banggood -  https://goo.gl/FF2v6W
Battery Hookup - http://bit.ly/2Oe9PLW 
Reply
#2
interesting, waiting for updates
Cell progress: 2016/10/17:                                       Business Owner                                       Projects:
180cells@2.0                                             http://18650shrinkandcellholders.com                     www.PortableRecycledPower.com
600cells@2.1-2.6a                                                                                                                8Kw Powerwall  
70cells@2.7a+                                                                                                                     1Kw PowerBlade 
                                                                                                                                          16Kw PowerRack (concept)
                                                                                                                                          12v LED Sconce
Reply
#3
I think you're suggesting vanon sent you a special , one off pack with good cells ...

This is always the danger when a company sends you the item .. some of those cells in Jake's pictures don't look like they're new , coming off a production line they should all look clean and identical... Don't put it pass such companies to use cells from used laptop batteries , like we do ... probably the pack was produced in China where a lot of recycling of 18650s goes on.
Reply
#4
(06-16-2018, 06:18 AM)ozz93666 Wrote: I think you're suggesting vanon sent you a special , one off pack with good cells ...

This is always the danger when a company sends you the item  .. some of those cells in Jake's pictures don't look like they're new , coming off a production line they should all look clean and identical... Don't put it pass such companies to use cells from used laptop batteries , like we do ... probably the pack was produced in China where a lot of recycling of 18650s goes on.

Really not keen on jumping to the conclusion of them using Secondhand cells - more Not Samsung/LG ect..
If you'd like to support the forum please feel free to use my affiliate links to purchase all kinds of stuff for your projects 
Amazon - https://amzn.to/2qURmH2
eBay - https://goo.gl/6mrQHH 
Aliexpress - http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bNLW537E
Banggood -  https://goo.gl/FF2v6W
Battery Hookup - http://bit.ly/2Oe9PLW 
Reply
#5
First Test... 

Second and so on... looking spot on so far...
If you'd like to support the forum please feel free to use my affiliate links to purchase all kinds of stuff for your projects 
Amazon - https://amzn.to/2qURmH2
eBay - https://goo.gl/6mrQHH 
Aliexpress - http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bNLW537E
Banggood -  https://goo.gl/FF2v6W
Battery Hookup - http://bit.ly/2Oe9PLW 
Reply
#6
If it's too good to be true then it most likely isn't true. I guess no one can sell you a battery with ten INR18650-30Q for under 40 dollars and still make a profit. I don't know how low the price per cell gets when you buy lots of them but it's hard to imagine that this can be done economically even on a large scale. If I get an assembled battery with ten of these cells for under 40 dollars I immediately think something fishy is going on.

The rule of thumb is to always expect non-branded / 2nd grade cells, or whatever you'd like to call them, on cheap 3rd party replacement batteries. You get what you pay for. These cells are not necessarily bad but they are not the real deal either. Don't only test them at low amps on the Opus, put a 15A load on them. The INR18650-30Q are specced for 15A continuous which is the bare minimum for power tools I'd say.

And on the pricing of Ryobi batteries, they earn money on the batteries, not the tools. Their batteries are up to twice the price of a comparable battery from their competitors. Also, having a rather complex BMS on every battery increases the price, I guess. Others put most of the intelligence in the tool (and the charger) and not in the battery.
This is because different brands are aiming at different markets. Ryobi is a TTI brand and aims for the DIY market where many customers might buy several tools but not many batteries. Milwaukee is a TTI brand as well but they serve the professional market. The 18V 5.0Ah Ryobi battery costs 100 EUR here in Germany while the 18V 5.0Ah Milwaukee battery is under 70 EUR. But as with most professional brands Milwaukee rather earns money on the tools which are much more expensive than the ones from Ryobi.
It's the same for Stanley Black&Decker when comparing Black&Decker (DIY) and DeWalt (Pro), also the same for Bosch with their green (DIY) and blue (Pro) series, ...
Reply
#7
For a short time while I consider my wording I'll be leaving this as unlisted.


Korishan likes this post
If you'd like to support the forum please feel free to use my affiliate links to purchase all kinds of stuff for your projects 
Amazon - https://amzn.to/2qURmH2
eBay - https://goo.gl/6mrQHH 
Aliexpress - http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bNLW537E
Banggood -  https://goo.gl/FF2v6W
Battery Hookup - http://bit.ly/2Oe9PLW 
Reply
#8
As soon as you've mentioned the caution notice I knew they were going to be LG cells. I've seen it before on LG HG2 cells I used to rebuild a power tool battery. And that's actually a legit thing, LG seemed to be worried about sales of cells to vapers (and DIY people I guess).
I've never seen that ring on the bottom of any LG cells either, older Panasonic cells have one but they look different. The model number suggests that this is a LG HG cell but as you say, no info on it anywhere which is strange. Instead of the L after HG there should be a number to be in line with LGs naming scheme. Like with their HG2 cell, LGABHG21865.

I see where you are going, cycling the cells to see if they show signs of degradation. But as I said I think you should put a bigger load on them than the Opus can do, these are new cells and high(ish) drain cells. If these are proper Samsung cells, and I think they are, then the results will match with their datasheet. As for the LG cells, well, no datasheet on these, but 15A is reasonable for a power tool battery so they should stand up to these kind of loads as well.

My personal opinion as of now is that Vanon actually did set you up. I wonder if that is the reason why it took a while and why you only got a single battery. They probably got that one manufactured just for you! Conspiracy! Big Grin
I honestly wonder if that might be the case. The spotweld issues could be associated with that. They clearly look like spotwelded with wrong settings, maybe made by hand by someone who didn't know better. You can see that too little energy was used as the nickel didn't melt properly.
Korishan likes this post
Reply
#9
Good to know it's a 'thing' with the caution on the cells but no search results strikes me as odd and that ring says it's not a LG cell for sure. I could be wrong but looks 'cheap' to me. I might do some heavier load tests if I get some time but that is a much more manual process.

with the spotwelds they are very average but feel it was done like that due to the very think nickle strip they used.
If you'd like to support the forum please feel free to use my affiliate links to purchase all kinds of stuff for your projects 
Amazon - https://amzn.to/2qURmH2
eBay - https://goo.gl/6mrQHH 
Aliexpress - http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bNLW537E
Banggood -  https://goo.gl/FF2v6W
Battery Hookup - http://bit.ly/2Oe9PLW 
Reply
#10
Information 
(06-16-2018, 09:40 PM)hbpowerwall Wrote: Good to know it's a 'thing' with the caution on the cells but no search results strikes me as odd and that ring says it's not a LG cell for sure. I could be wrong but looks 'cheap' to me. I might do some heavier load tests if I get some time but that is a much more manual process.

with the spotwelds they are very average but feel it was done like that due to the very think nickle strip they used.

"W" checking back in...  I took a few more pictures since I completed my first cycle/test with the battery.

The batteries I received (purchased last Monday, arrived Thursday) certainly aren't Samsungs.  They are the MX18650 29P listed in OP.  They appear identical to "Jake"s set, which differ from OPs in that the PCB is similar but different, had security torx screws, and were taped down into the housing.  My assembled unit weighed in at 709g (compared to 724g from an OEM Ryobi 4.0aH).  The batteries themselves look clean/new, and any residue is from the black tape used to hold the cells in place.  Tabs look pretty clean.  The only real oddity in mine is 1 battery on the inside is labeled differently and states "DYNABAT".  It's the one with the thinnest/shortest wrapper on its negative (top, second from right on the side with the safety tape for the eject clip).  All the others have the MX18650 29P branding.  I tried to get a picture, but the best I could get for readability is the "DY" portion.  The only other readable print (really difficult to read inside the pack) is 16L181000936 which I believe is just a serial number.  I do not plan to disassemble the pack, as I did just buy this as a tool battery.

The first and only test I've done so far is a low draw fan test, using the Ryobi P3320 fan on high as the test.  In this test, the battery pack appears to have done pretty well.  I just used wall clocks to time this, and it ran for somewhere between 10 hours 59 minutes and 11 hours and 1 minute, so I'll call it 11 hours even.  After it powered off, the battery indicator light did not illuminate at all!  It was late into the night (well, early into the morning), so I slept and let it sit for 8 hours.  In the morning, the battery test showed 1/4 bars again.  A quick voltage check showed 15.64V across the pack.  Balance across the cell banks ranged from 3.10V to 3.14V, so decent on the balance.

I'm currently doing a run test on the same fan with an OEM Ryobi 4.0aH battery for direct comparison, but have some time to go, just short of 6 hours into that test, so a bit to go there still, I'll update when it completes.

Edit: The OEM Ryobi 4.0aH battery clocked in at 7hrs28m on the same fan test.  It ended at 13.1V, but is slowly climbing back up (up to 13.82V now after 4.75hrs, but I'll wait until 8 hours to test again, which is when I measured the Vanon battery post-load) after sitting.  This battery is a bit older, with a 2015 mfg date, unknown how many cycles I've run thorough it, as I have several batteries I alternate.  Edit 2: After sitting for 8 hours after depletion, the battery has stabilized to 13.95V compared to 15.64V from the Vanon.

Assuming the Ryobi OEM battery is pretty close to 4.0aH (as it has known reliable cells), that would put this Vanon somewhere around 5.8aH, which for unknown cells is pretty decent, but that is only with a low amp draw test.  I'm not sure I have a reliable high amp draw test.

hbpowerwall and Korishan like this post
Reply


Who read this thread?
100 User(s) read this thread:
hbpowerwall (08-23-2018, 05:45 AM), AZ_Tekkie (06-25-2018, 02:24 AM), daromer (06-16-2018, 05:17 PM), mike (08-09-2018, 10:37 AM), 18650Shrink (06-16-2018, 03:12 AM), station240 (06-23-2018, 05:46 PM), Majorphill (07-01-2018, 06:35 AM), Korishan (08-22-2018, 12:06 AM), A + A (08-09-2018, 05:54 AM), PAF (08-22-2018, 08:29 AM), ozz93666 (06-24-2018, 08:35 AM), jdeadman (08-27-2018, 10:31 PM), wim (08-09-2018, 06:13 AM), Kaspars Krumins (06-16-2018, 07:02 AM), watts-on (08-21-2018, 09:21 PM), jesusangel (07-14-2018, 05:02 PM), alexcj (07-22-2018, 01:22 PM), IronSky (07-23-2018, 09:46 AM), OmgImAlexis (06-23-2018, 10:56 AM), Stefaan De Ridder (06-25-2018, 09:59 AM), Chiptosser (06-24-2018, 12:49 PM), Chris Evans (06-16-2018, 05:03 PM), BlueSwordM (08-21-2018, 08:52 PM), idiomatically (08-21-2018, 10:39 PM), lnxpro (06-24-2018, 12:25 AM), KtB (08-18-2018, 06:58 PM), Travis Watson (06-24-2018, 03:06 AM), Mazlem (07-14-2018, 03:24 PM), ivnz (06-27-2018, 09:39 PM), Geek (08-22-2018, 12:02 AM), Rad (08-10-2018, 02:18 AM), SWEwall (06-16-2018, 07:55 AM), Jon (06-27-2018, 07:43 PM), mr_hypno (07-14-2018, 01:15 PM), floydR (06-17-2018, 02:13 PM), Azuria (06-23-2018, 12:59 PM), DarkRaven (08-21-2018, 09:17 PM), Joey T-Bone Smith (06-16-2018, 04:14 AM), 12ax7 (06-23-2018, 06:14 PM), ChrisD5710 (06-25-2018, 11:25 AM), pgprentice (06-25-2018, 04:05 PM), CarelHassink (06-27-2018, 10:57 AM), Stramon (07-15-2018, 08:10 AM), DropB3ar (06-23-2018, 11:21 AM), Solexx X (06-22-2018, 11:28 PM), Ste Collister (09-13-2018, 04:09 PM), Charly144 (08-22-2018, 12:13 PM), djuro (08-22-2018, 06:06 PM), Graham Fabian (06-24-2018, 12:41 PM), BaronVonChickenPants (06-16-2018, 10:37 PM), acidice333 (06-23-2018, 11:16 AM), Jason Morris (06-16-2018, 03:51 PM), brwainer (08-21-2018, 11:47 PM), drchips (06-27-2018, 02:51 PM), cat23 (06-27-2018, 09:12 PM), HughF (06-27-2018, 03:46 PM), Roland Domke (06-25-2018, 07:17 AM), nrm21 (06-21-2018, 06:04 PM), gregoinc (06-17-2018, 10:18 AM), Gyro Flyer (06-24-2018, 01:59 PM), Shadeyman (09-02-2018, 12:56 PM), simonisabella (06-16-2018, 03:54 AM), EGOksy (06-23-2018, 09:20 PM), gpn (06-24-2018, 05:06 PM), lifeofsins (06-23-2018, 05:15 PM), Headrc (06-16-2018, 01:58 PM), mbrunton (06-28-2018, 10:20 AM), alberta offgrid (06-25-2018, 06:11 AM), rodagaster (06-20-2018, 01:32 AM), Crimp Daddy (08-08-2018, 11:55 PM), John Southern (06-18-2018, 03:13 AM), Bakteria (09-23-2018, 10:17 AM), Redpacket (06-22-2018, 09:53 AM), DarrenW (06-16-2018, 03:13 AM), completelycharged (08-21-2018, 08:55 PM), Ibiza (07-14-2018, 01:18 PM), Shane Jones (06-16-2018, 04:19 AM), Griffo (06-25-2018, 01:32 PM), dantheflyingman (07-28-2018, 08:22 PM), Geeksboro (06-16-2018, 01:36 PM), davidtrn24 (10-16-2018, 06:14 AM), Oliman (06-26-2018, 02:09 AM), solar_18650 (06-22-2018, 08:40 AM), Dale Zabel (09-13-2018, 05:15 AM), Peter T (06-23-2018, 12:41 PM), Anthony Dabonde (06-23-2018, 11:47 AM), özkan (06-23-2018, 11:53 AM), farmerjohn (06-18-2018, 02:04 PM), tfrank (06-16-2018, 06:31 AM), Mathew Frank (06-16-2018, 10:14 PM), Greg Verrall (06-23-2018, 09:56 PM), cadric (06-24-2018, 11:32 AM), happygroover (06-27-2018, 08:11 PM), Ole Balter (06-23-2018, 10:10 PM), Bubba (08-22-2018, 10:23 PM), Leo_C (09-21-2018, 04:56 PM), GNiessen (06-23-2018, 07:28 PM), farmpk (06-24-2018, 05:14 AM), Seapine (06-24-2018, 05:24 AM), bobirab (06-23-2018, 08:17 PM)

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)