What hybrid inverter/charger should I get? -> Update got a Victron Multigrid.

MrMuzza008

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Nov 19, 2018
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G'day all,

I'm new here and new to this field and have questions I need answers to.

I currently have a 3kw solargrid tie system as follows.

3kw solar panels that put out open circuit voltage of456v and short circuit current of 8.75a.
The inverter is a Solax SL-TL-3000 and I don't believe batteries can be added to it.

image_sccfop.jpg

image_tmbgyc.jpg


I just got myself a 150ah 24v Lifepo4 battery pack and want to use this to suppliment my household power and therefore reduce my power bills.

image_sbbxrk.jpg


What I would like is an inverter/charger that during the day charges up the battery and when the battery is full then feeds the grid. Then at night the battery supplies power to the house until its used and then the grid takes over and I would like this to be automatic, ie set and forget.

I don't know much about what inverter/chargers are available, but my budget would be about $1000.00AUD

Also when I was enquiring about one on ebay (that turned out not to be suitable) the seller said that in Australia you need an AS4777 certification. Is that true, or can you get away with it if they don't know if you know what I mean.

I'm an electronics technician, so I have very good technical knowledge and skills, so don't be afraid to overwhelm me with the details.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

MrMuzza.
 
w0067814 said:
Over budget but my vote would be on of these. Ring around and haggle on price.
(Random Australian website with price, not a recommendation)

https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/power-conversion/inverter-chargers/victron-multiplus-ii/

Looks good. If it comes down to it and there are no cheaper alternatives then it seem suitable. The one that I think would suit me is the Victron MultiGrid 24/3000/70-50 - 230V.Looking at the details about it, it looks like it runs between the grid and thesolar inverter, in my case the Solax, and runs off of the AC from the pv inverter. From the website: "Grid in-line topology with PV inverter PV power is converted to AC. The MultiGrid will use excess PV power to charge the batteries or to feed power back into the grid, and will discharge the battery or use power from the grid to supplement a shortage of PV power. In case of a power outage, the MultiGrid will disconnect the grid and continue to supply the load."

Any other suggestions peoples?

MrMuzza.
 
While Victron is great gear, unfortunately I don't think the Multigrid is Australian approved for grid inter-tie applications - or wasn't when I looked ~12 months back
 
Redpacket said:
While Victron is great gear, unfortunately I don't think the Multigrid is Australian approved for grid inter-tie applications - or wasn't when I looked ~12 months back

Well, while looking for re-sellers of the Victron MultiGrid 24/3000/70-50 - 230Vnear me I found multiple sites that sell itand one even saysAU 4777.2:2015 approval and CEC listed. Most were more expensive than the site suggested byw0067814.
MrMuzza.
 
That's good news then! Must have got approval since I got mine.... :)
 
Redpacket said:
That's good news then! Must have got approval since I got mine.... :)

May I ask are you happy with it and how is yours setup? What was involved to get yours installed? Did you do it yourself, or had to have a professional do it?

MrMuzza.
 
G'day all,

Ok I've bitten the bullet and purchased theVictron MultiGrid 24/3000/70-50 - 230V, but I also got theVictron Color Control GX CCGX Monitoring panel for two reasons, which some of you may already know, to control the multigrid and how and when it charges the battery and then uses the battery etc, and also because you can hook it up to the Batrium system, which I have also purchased.

I know I've gone over my budget, and it will probably take a few years to break even, but I figure I will be mostly insulated from electricity price increases into the future.

I'll keep you all posted on how it all goes.

MrMuzza.
 
G'day all,

Just another question if I may. Can any of you identify the following connector:

image_lbmmde.jpg


I may need another one and its opposite gender to be able to put the Victron in between. I don't want to have to cut or modify this connector as I want to be able to take the Victron out of the circuit andsimply plug it back in the way it is now.

MrMuzza.


MrMuzza008 said:
G'day all,

Just another question if I may. Can any of you identify the following connector:

image_lbmmde.jpg


I may need another one and its opposite gender to be able to put the Victron in between. I don't want to have to cut or modify this connector as I want to be able to take the Victron out of the circuit andsimply plug it back in the way it is now.

MrMuzza.

Ok all,

I've partially answered my own question by looking a bit closer, taking some more pictures, and googling around. Pictures first:

image_szuuky.jpg

image_mriwzy.jpg


From that I can see it is a Wieland RST series connector. It 250v rated and25 amps.
.
.
I've actually just looked and found them on the following site:
Connector RST25I3S B1 ZR1SV GR03 Art.No. 96.031.4054.3
Device connector RST25I3S S1 M01V GR0 Art.No. 96.032.5054.3
But it seems to be a commercial site. It has a login but there is not register option.

If anyone knows how I can get both of them (I'm in Australia), that would be greatly apprieciated.
MrMuzza.
 

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MrMuzza008 said:
G'day all,

Just another question if I may. Can any of you identify the following connector:

image_lbmmde.jpg


I may need another one and its opposite gender to be able to put the Victron in between. I don't want to have to cut or modify this connector as I want to be able to take the Victron out of the circuit andsimply plug it back in the way it is now.

MrMuzza.


MrMuzza008 said:
G'day all,

Just another question if I may. Can any of you identify the following connector:

image_lbmmde.jpg


I may need another one and its opposite gender to be able to put the Victron in between. I don't want to have to cut or modify this connector as I want to be able to take the Victron out of the circuit andsimply plug it back in the way it is now.

MrMuzza.

Ok all,

I've partially answered my own question by looking a bit closer, taking some more pictures, and googling around. Pictures first:

image_szuuky.jpg

image_mriwzy.jpg


From that I can see it is a Wieland RST series connector. It 250v rated and25 amps.
.
.
I've actually just looked and found them on the following site:
Connector RST25I3S B1 ZR1SV GR03 Art.No. 96.031.4054.3
Device connector RST25I3S S1 M01V GR0 Art.No. 96.032.5054.3
But it seems to be a commercial site. It has a login but there is not register option.

If anyone knows how I can get both of them (I'm in Australia), that would be greatly apprieciated.
MrMuzza.


It seems I keep answering my own questions (lesson to all do your research first). I found the register option and created an account, just waiting for the reply email to confirm the account, then I can order the connectors. I did find one of them on Amazon, but not the other, so wont use them.
MrMuzza.
 

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Muzza008, What is your rate structure? How can you figure your return on investment?
Where I am The Return on investment would not pay for a powerwall2 before the batteries need to be replaced not counting time use of money.
 
johnd01 said:
Muzza008, What is your rate structure? How can you figure your return on investment?
Where I am The Return on investment would not pay for a powerwall2 before the batteries need to be replaced not counting time use of money.

Maybe I over stated that part. I'll have to see once its all installed. I'm hoping to zero my bill or close to it and therefore insulate against future price rises.I'm also doing it because I want to do it myself with my own time and effort to see if I can do it and say "I did that". Getting a professional to do it all means their labor charge and profit marginon top and it has to be done their way. If I do most of it, then I can do the things I want and also have fun doing it in the process and learn how it all works. Its like a hobby (an expensive one though). At least its going to be doing something useful I hope and once its done, its done. No more expenses for a while anyway, batteries as you say. But who knows a new type of battery that is way better and lasts at lot longer could be just a few years away and at least I'll have everything else already. Or someone may invent a ZPM or Naquadah generator or something like that and all our power problems will be over anyway. :)

One other thing I'm hoping to do to save money is that we have gas central heating and these days using it is expensive. I also have two reverse cycle air conditioners. Next cold season I will see if using the aircons in heat mode running off the solar/battery/grid is better than gas. I'll have to gauge how much power they use and how often to use them given that winter means shorter days, cloudy days and less battery charging time.

MrMuzza.
 
That is all well and good but it is a lot better to do the math before you buy anything. Without your rate table and a spreadsheet you could put a bunch of money out that will not do anything for you.

Here I can buy off-peak power at 8 cents peek is 14 and there is super peek for 3 hours a day 4 summer months at 32 cents. I sell at the same rate I buy. I do pay $20 for a connection fee. It is nice to be able to pay for Dec. off-peak power with July super-peak and settle up in Oct. The utility is a cheap battery I can charge after I have used the power. After 3 years I have a $180 credit. My best solar months are 4.5 times what my low solar months are. It is not practical to buy a battery that will shift energy from peak solar to off-peak solar months ahead of time, use the energy and then pay it back as I do. If you cannot show a return on investment in less than 5 years you may want to shift this project to the hobby class like golf, few of us make golf pay, some invest a lot more into golf willingly.

Here restive heating costs 4 times as much as gas heating.
 
johnd01 said:
That is all well and good but it is a lot better to do the math before you buy anything. Without your rate table and a spreadsheet you could put a bunch of money out that will not do anything for you.

Here I can buy off-peak power at 8 cents peek is 14 and there is super peek for 3 hours a day 4 summer months at 32 cents. I sell at the same rate I buy. I do pay $20 for a connection fee. It is nice to be able to pay for Dec. off-peak power with July super-peak and settle up in Oct. The utility is a cheap battery I can charge after I have used the power. After 3 years I have a $180 credit. My best solar months are 4.5 times what my low solar months are. It is not practical to buy a battery that will shift energy from peak solar to off-peak solar months ahead of time, use the energy and then pay it back as I do. If you cannot show a return on investment in less than 5 years you may want to shift this project to the hobby class like golf, few of us make golf pay, some invest a lot more into golf willingly.

Here restive heating costs 4 times as much as gas heating.

Where are you talking about? I'm in Australia where they are closing down all the coal fired power stations that produced cheap but dirty energy and supposedly replacing them with renewable energy. Our power bills are always going up despite the government claiming they will keep the prices down. Back when I was a kid (in the 70's) I remember the power stations and companies were government owned.Now they are all privatised and only answer to share holders who demand profits. Prices will not be coming down any time soon, only up, so I thought I had to get a battery setup the way I wanted it now, rather than later and hopefully I will (cross fingers) at least break even down the track.

MrMuzza.
 
I am in CA. I know you are working with different rules than I have. That is why I was asking about your rules/rates. I know that solar has really cut into the grid power profitability there. I do not know what your difference between July and January solar production and if you get significant shading variations. I track a guy who was trying to be off grid with a small battery who went more than 20 days with no significant solar. They used a portable gas generator in the back of his truck to make up the difference. It is very difficult to talk about this without the information. In general lead acid batteries are cheap to start with but have maintenance requirements and short lifespan compared Tesla batteries.
 
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