Woah! Used laptop pricing up up and away

Headrc

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Jan 27, 2018
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We may be our own worse enemies here folks. I am down to my last few laptop batteries to sell and was going to replenish this week but my sources have now doubled what I have to pay for them. And I am buying in large quantities. I don't know about other areas, but so far all of my sources within several hundred miles have skyrocketed in pricing just within a month. I just thought I would give everyone a heads-up. I am going to keep looking but OUCH! is all I have to say.
 
What is the price hike in your area?

I can't say one way or another around here as I haven't tried to find any packs within the past few months. But there aren't many people around here doing what we do here, that I can tell, at least. So hopefully prices will stay low in this area for a little while longer.
 
Like most good things, they seem to come to and end once the popularity shoots up.

As much as I enjoy batteries as a hobby, and have for years, its the awesome and entertaining videos from people like HBPowerWalls, Average Joe, Jehu, and others that turn batteries into a mainstream trend... sometimes too mainstream because the proverbial cat is out of the bag.

Every time I share a PowerWall video with a friend, they end up becoming a competing buyer of cells haha.
 
I don't know ....I got a feeling this is heading national because like I said, I broadened my reach several hundred miles and found the pricing all to be double what I paid a month ago. And I wonder where these are going? Are the major recycler's harvesting?? Yep ...our own worst enemies!
 
I don't know, I am just speculating on the general consumer side because of media and trends.

If you consider the supply/demand aspect of it... demand is up, and with a lack of supply, price rises.

I was reading an article the other day about cells from used EV cars and how they could be used for static storage to help stabilize the grid as we move into the future. Energy storage is the new frontier.

What do I know... I am just another hobbyist getting my share 2000mah at a time.
 
Prices in Germany are (and have been for a while) through the roof. Not worth it, I think we already went past "peak battery" some time ago. In case someone doesn't get the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

I've said that quite some time ago, buying new cells is the way to go, it is much cheaper. Which is a shame but this is the reality. Only if people start buying new cells (and lose interest in used batteries) the market will stabilize. And only then cells can be reclaimed and reused again like it should be. No one is doing it, or should be doing it, out of pure belief in the concept that this is good for the environment. It is and we should do it, but not at any price, especially if the profit goes to people who don't care.
 
DarkRaven said:
Prices in Germany are (and have been for a while) through the roof. Not worth it, I think we already went past "peak battery" some time ago. In case someone doesn't get the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

Well we sure haven't reached the peak production of batteries, I think we're just in a lull from mainstream laptops switching to pouch/flat cells and EV battery production still very low. We will soon be inundated with used EV batteries from salvage as they grow in popularity. Heck there's already been 2(?) Model 3 crashes which went to salvage, so maybe some genuine Tesla 2170s will show up on eBay soon. Unfortunately (though fortunately for EV safety) the packs are super well designed and almost never broken/damaged by crashes, so are sold on whole...
 
Not many EV cars in our area though ....so that will be quite a while here I believe. But looking at Leaf, Volt batteries etc. for sale on used market ...they are still quite high comparably to what has been our experience with18650 harvesting...
 
DarkRaven said:
Prices in Germany are (and have been for a while) through the roof. Not worth it, I think we already went past "peak battery" some time ago. In case someone doesn't get the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

I've said that quite some time ago, buying new cells is the way to go, it is much cheaper. Which is a shame but this is the reality. Only if people start buying new cells (and lose interest in used batteries) the market will stabilize. And only then cells can be reclaimed and reused again like it should be. No one is doing it, or should be doing it, out of pure belief in the concept that this is good for the environment. It is and we should do it, but not at any price, especially if the profit goes to people who don't care.

I agree, if prices continue to rise, new cells will work out cheaper. Even if not in the short term. It is a shame people keep putting their prices up. I can see a situation where people will start buying new cells, and used cells will start to accumulate, then they will become cheap again.

Unless they are extremely cheap used cells are not viable. There are too many factors, who wants an expensive 'lucky dip'. Cost wise the time and effort to dismantle and test used cells is already not economical for many people.

New cells have huge advantages. Less balancing required. They will be easier to solder and spot weld. No capacity testing required. I haven't don the math yet, but already I am considering selling my tested cells to buy large LiFePO4.
 
Here in Holland are a lot of bikes, went to several bike shops, if you tell them you are you are building an powerwall for an hobby, you get the batteries for free.
At the most of them, if I have to pay, I don't buy them.
Leave them there.
 
Farends said:
Here in Holland are a lot of bikes, went to several bike shops, if you tell them you are you are building an powerwall for an hobby, you get the batteries for free.
At the most of them, if I have to pay, I don't buy them.
Leave them there.

I think this would be the right policy. Keep the market fair. Don't pay more than you are willing to. This is my policy. If my supplier put the price up, I would look elsewhere.

Id rather pay extra for new cells than support a greedy supplier. That has always been my policy with any business. If I can see the circumstance why they put their price up, I can accept that. But if it is just greed, well no.
 
rev0 said:
DarkRaven said:
Prices in Germany are (and have been for a while) through the roof. Not worth it, I think we already went past "peak battery" some time ago. In case someone doesn't get the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

Well we sure haven't reached the peak production of batteries...

I admit, my comparison has some issues. I meant peak battery as in "general availability of used batteries" and not related to global production capacity. I know this is different from peak oil.

Not paying for used batteries is the right thing to do. I'm doing this as well, i.e. not paying, and won't spend another penny on used batteries. Occasionally I get some batteries for free now, but in case I suddenly need more than a few cells then I will buy them new. And of course I'm not buying 18650s then, but prismatic LiFePO cells or maybe LiTiO cells in the future.

When looking at the Pros and Cons of reclaimed 18650s you will find a long list of Cons. Paying for Cons is not the smartest decision ever. I'm totally happy with the Cons if I can do something for the environment and save some money but why should I accept all the Cons so that someone else earns a few bucks?
 
So where does one fine new cells in bulk quantity and price?

Im paying $1 to $1.50 USD for used cells, but only because they are all the same cells... like those hoverboard or modem batteries.

Its saving me time and its convenient, Im getting some consistency, but I know its a premium.

I like the idea of large format cells but no idea where to shop.
 
How does this all compare to new cells that folks might be purchasing for applications here? That of course is the issue ...harvesting used cells and getting good ones compared to just buying new cells.
 
Crimp Daddy said:
So where does one fine new cells in bulk quantity and price?

Im paying $1 to $1.50 USD for used cells, but only because they are all the same cells... like those hoverboard or modem batteries.

Its saving me time and its convenient, Im getting some consistency, but I know its a premium.

I like the idea of large format cells but no idea where to shop.

Depends on where you are located. I have several shops in Germany that sell LiFePO cells made by Winston, prices are around 1.50 EUR per Ah. There is also a big importer for all kinds of cells based in Prague selling Winston, CALB and Sinopoly. Prices around 1.20 EUR per Ah.
In comparison, there is NKON in the Netherlands which is THE 18650 wholesaler for Europe. Prices vary but are generally a bit lower, 1.00 EUR per Ah or even a bit less, but only when buying a couple of hundred cells. You are probably doing that anyway so you will get the better price but it is much more work.

Sure, these new prismatic LiFePO cells are more expensive than 18650s and new 18650s are more expensive than reclaimed 18650. But prices are artificially high for reclaimed 18650s and from the three options it is the worst in terms of performance, remaining cycle life and convenience. New 18650s are a bit more expensive, but have all the benefits of new cells and are still as unconvenient as reclaimed 18650s. And the prismatic cells are even more expensive, but they are new cells and are so much nicer to work with. But the price differences are so small that it is worth to go for new LiFePO prismatics immediately when building a new battery. From my point of view at least, the benefits and savings in the long term will make up for the higher initial cost. Also LiFePO chemistry is much more stable than other lithium chemistries and can serve as a drop in replacement for lead acid batteries without having to change anything.

LiFePO prismatics:
Price o
Power ++
Cycles ++
Comfort ++
Safety ++

New 18650s:
Price +
Power +
Cycles +
Comfort o
Safety +

Reclaimed 18650s:
Price ++
Power o
Cycles o
Comfort -
Safety o
 
I recently bought a few hundred samsung inr18650-25r cells brand new for a bit over $3/cell shipped. Not cheap but they are a bin cells that are extremely consistent. I need a smaller portable battery with high drain capability so I will use the new cells for that and then reclaim cells for additional storage at lower C rates AND lower cell costs.
 
+1 on a link for some new cells =)

Really trying to find some good US suppliers... if I am already spending $1 to 1.50 on used 5-6 year old cells, I would be happy to buy new and be a part of "fixing the problem" haha
 
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