mixing testing processes - can you do it?

Oz18650

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Oct 2, 2017
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There seems to be a general agreement that when testing you should pick a process and only use that process consistently.

eg only 1 model of tester and a fixed methodology of how that tester is used.


I think that idea could be slightly relaxed to allow different testers to be used simultaneously when building packs.

eg, say you have capacity to test 8 cells using tester type A and 4 cells using tester type B.
If you are making 120P packs, then 80 Cells would come from tester A and 40 cells would come from tester B
As long as your packs all have the sameproportion (eg 80,40) of cells from each type of tester, your packs should be the same capacities as each other.

If someone has access to a couple of different types of testers, it seems a shame not to be able to use them.

What does everyone think of this idea?

Edit to elaborate.
Where I am suggesting 80 from one tester and 40 from another tester, I should also have made clearer that the capacity from tester type A and the capacity from tester type B would need to be the same from across each pack
Eg average from tester A is 2000mah and average from tester B is 2100mah (for example if tester B typically reads higher than tester A)
If these average figures are kept the same across packa, the packs should still end up similar capacities.
I hope that makes things a little clearer..
 
To hopefully make this discussion short and the reason I want to make it short is the last line in this response ;)

It is for sure doable to use mixed testers as long as you spend some extra time in afterwards mixing the cells but with that said you add more factors to an already rather complex situation :) People are doing already today. Unfortunately there is many answers in some threads and the person asking may not sort the answers in the best way. There are tested ways doing things and for new people they are most likley the easiest to follow and for those like me and others testing new scenarios are the way for us :)

1. Why bother buying mixed testers from the start ? You have a choice here and unfortunately im not sure why people think that they have to test them out :) read some reviews instead. Im pretty sure 99% of everyone here bought there testers aka made a choice!
2. The complexity do get more complicated due to that you have results that isnt the same from first hand. You also then should mark the cells differently and sort them differently
3. Working with a system is always easier if the system is consistent and same. So for instance having 3 different testers makes it a tad more time consuming and in worst case you have to have a more complex power supply to the testers.


Why make the build process more complicated than it is?

Read before buy and buy once cry once ;)
 
daromer said:
.............Why bother buying mixed testers from the start ? ..............

Why make the build process more complicated than it is?

Read before buy and buy once cruy once ;)

CRUY?? I think cry once daromer. You can be the nomenclature polisI will be the spelling polis. :p

I totally agree with Daromer!!Onestyle tester for the simplest solution to testing and analyzing cells.
There I said it. :p

Now to the details.
I have 6 different brands of Charger/Analyzers.
If I had an unlimited budget I would buy 10 SKYRC MC3000 and be done with it. But at $1100.00I would be crying a lot.
So If I where to start all over again and know what I know now I would get either the Foxnovo or the Opus and have the SKYRC as a reference.
The Foxnovo for its simplicity as all it does is charge and capacity either at 0.5A or 1A no additional things to get in the way.
The Opus just to have a little more control over the charging and discharging cycle. If I was limited to only 1 unit I would get the XTAR Dragon but that's another story.
All this would be supplemented with a YR1030 IR and V meter.
Comparison af 1 cell (the same one cell in all the slots)on4 different chargers.
From here you can make your own choices

image_yodwop.jpg


Wolf
 
+1 daromer

To add to that, if you already have multiple testers (for what ever reason), here is what I would recommend:

For each type of tester, you build a separate string. So opus would be used for an entire 14s80 string (for example). Then the other tester would do a completely separate 14s80p. And continue for each charger type.

This will yield the best possible outcome of using multiple chargers. There isn't much of a possibility of 1 pack in a string being higher capacity than another by introducing unneeded variables into the equation.
 
Seeing as this thread appears to be about making the battery selection process more complex.

If you've got a number of testers, why not test each cell on each brand of tester, and average the results.
 
Sean said:
Seeing as this thread appears to be about making the battery selection process more complex.

If you've got a number of testers, why not test each cell on each brand of tester, and average the results.

Now there is an idea why didn't i think of that? :p
LOL My Spreadsheet is already into the AF cell column hey what's another 7 or 8 more?

Good one

Wolf
 
Sean said:
Seeing as this thread appears to be about making the battery selection process more complex.

If you've got a number of testers, why not test each cell on each brand of tester, and average the results.

This is completely missing the point I was trying to make....
I even said "If someone has access to a couple of different testers it seems a shame not to be able to use them".

The idea was to allow some people to increase the number of cells that could be processed and therefore speed things up.

Yes, it would increase complexity, but if someone is already successfully doing a project like this, the extra complexity is only a small amount overall and the benefit would be extra speed to get them to the finish line.
 
Oz18650 said:
This is completely missing the point I was trying to make....
I even said "If someone has access to a couple of different testers it seems a shame not to be able to use them".

The idea was to allow some people to increase the number of cells that could be processed and therefore speed things up.

I think several of us mentioned it: Don't mix the various charger types together, but use them in separate setups. Mixing them together is adding unnecessary complexity. Keep it simple. 1 Charger type per string. Can't get much simpler than that.

However, I will add that your question has merit. It's good to ask these types of questions/scenarios to let the community as a whole understand the dilemma/solution.
 
Cry baby "cruy" :D Its the new thing :D

For sure people should use what they have if its needed. Or even better sell the parts thats not the right ones and get proper things :D
For sure as long as you average as you said from beginning Oz i for sure think it will work out. Its just that you need to beware of what you test and how you do it.
 
Clearly many people DO have multiple testers available, whatever the reasons.
If I own 4 testers and someone says "I have 4 testers you can borrow till your project is done" but they are different to what I own, should I turn down the offer, or figure out a solutuon?
 
Oz18650 said:
This is completely missing the point I was trying to make....
................I even said "If someone has access to a couple of different testers it seems a shame not to be able to use them"....................
Yes I would with certain criteria.
I personally use 3 brands of testers. I am very comfortable with the results I get from my Opus, Foxnovo, LiitoKala.
Those are the ones that do allmy bulk testing.
I record all my cells and what charger was used for future reference as Korishan hintedand I can then make a determination how Iwant to build my packs.

image_ekrrxd.jpg


I have invested a lot of time and effort into determining how I want to test my cells and I am satisfied with my results and feel very comfortable with the outcome of my testers. I spot check them with my reference SKYRC every so often and have a good mental picture of what is going on. In the final analysis the difference between all 3 chargers is in the ~100mAhrange. and I am satisfied with that. It is all about what your level of comfort is with your testing procedure. If you have access to other testers my suggestion is to take a tested cell or cellsand compare themon the available testers and see. If the results are within your comfort zone by all means use them as much as you can. My Zanflaresfor example gave me an elevated result by as much as 300mAhso I no longer use them as testers but they make pretty good chargers. You can see them in the picture upper left side.

image_hpdsep.jpg


Wolf
 
Oz18650 said:
Clearly many people DO have multiple testers available, whatever the reasons.
If I own 4 testers and someone says "I have 4 testers you can borrow till your project is done" but they are different to what I own, should I turn down the offer, or figure out a solutuon?

Good point. If 2 people are helping each other out (or even 1 sided) and they have different types of chargers, then that can throw wrench in the numbers side of things. By all means use what's available, like daromer said. Accept the offer and give thanks for the help in support.

To this, what one could do is take 8 known good cells. Test all 8 in 1 type of charger/discharger, twice, changing which bay each cell is in. This is why 8 cells. Do this twice to get an even better calibration number on that charger/discharger.
Then repeat with the next type of charger/discharger. And repeat again for each type of charger/discharger.
Doing this will give you the Delta of each charger/discharger in relation to the others. Then you will know if a particular unit is higher or lower than another. After testing the cells, you'll know if you need to increase or decrease the "tested" capacity by however much percent off they are so they all match. This is why you use known good cells (brand new if possible)

If the deviation % is 1 or 2%, I wouldn't even really bother. At 3000mAh, that's only 30mAh, so not that big of a difference. But if they are 5% (150mAh) or 10% (300mAh), then you gotta worry about the differences when assembling cross device tested cells.
Granted, if one did sorta what you referred to in the OP, have 4 testers, and 400 cells, and 100 cells tested in each unit type, then evenly spread them out amongst the packs, you'd then have made a very even assembly. Buuuuut, this is usually not the case as you'll end up testing faster in some units, and/or have non-evenly divisible cells to packs ratio making this job a little harder (ratio being that all cells will not fall within very capacity ranges; if going 7s, will you only have 7 different capacity ranges? not really)

It's not that it's not possible, or even that it's not advisable. It's just that doing so adds more work and more math to the equations/constructions ;) But hey, we're all some kind of nerds/geeks here, so what's math to us? :p
 
Korishan said:
It's not that it's not possible, or even that it's not advisable. It's just that doing so adds more work and more math to the equations/constructions ;) But hey, we're all some kind of nerds/geeks here, so what's math to us? :p

There is always Excel or whatever spreadsheet solution you want to use You put in a number and ask it to change by a certain percentage and poof it's done.
No fuss no muss just numbers.

:D

Wolf
 
Oz18650 said:
Clearly many people DO have multiple testers available, whatever the reasons.
If I own 4 testers and someone says "I have 4 testers you can borrow till your project is done" but they are different to what I own, should I turn down the offer, or figure out a solutuon?

I wouldnt. I dont se how it would save time. For instance it would raise threads like this One and in the END we would just understand that we screwed the result more or creates more work ska time then we solved.

In most cases its just easier to get same brand either borrow or buy ;)

And IF needed go and slap ur friend for not buying the proper brand....
 
daromer said:
In most cases its just easier to get same brand either borrow or buy ;)

And IF needed go and slap ur friend for not buying the proper brand....

Ha since when do you have any friends? :p

Wolf
 
Wolf said:
daromer said:
In most cases its just easier to get same brand either borrow or buy ;)

And IF needed go and slap ur friend for not buying the proper brand....

Ha since when do you have any friends? :p

Wolf

1+... Chuckle
 
I most likely slapped them to much :p

Edit: But I do have you guys :angel: :heart: :cool: :D
 
Wolf said:
Sean said:
Seeing as this thread appears to be about making the battery selection process more complex.

If you've got a number of testers, why not test each cell on each brand of tester, and average the results.

Now there is an idea why didn't i think of that? :p
LOL My Spreadsheet is already into the AF cell column hey what's another 7 or 8 more?

Good one

Wolf

I'm pleased to see that someone understoodwhere my tounge was when I made my comment ;-)
 
Sean said:
Wolf said:
Sean said:
Seeing as this thread appears to be about making the battery selection process more complex.

If you've got a number of testers, why not test each cell on each brand of tester, and average the results.

Now there is an idea why didn't i think of that? :p
LOL My Spreadsheet is already into the AF cell column hey what's another 7 or 8 more?

Good one

Wolf

I'm pleased to see that someone understoodwhere my tounge was when I made my comment ;-)
Sorry Sean,
Please accept my apology.
I can see where you were coming from ?
 
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