Hello from Australia

Hello everyone. Its great to be here getting involved in the EV, PV and lithium ion community.

My first project involving 18650's wil be two ebike battery for my wife and I. But as many Australians will klnow, sourcing Brand new 18650's at reasonable prices is quite difficult. I am hoping to find an existing group buy operating within Australia for Australians.

Please, any australians reading this post: Please let me know of your best sources for BRAND NEW 18650's in Australia. Or perhaps if you know of any Australian Group buy systems.

im really aiming for an absolute maximum of $4.50Au per cel and will need between 180 and 300 cells (depending on nom voltage and capacity). I can get these unbranded 18650's from a company called "Pirez" electric bikes. I cant post links so just google it.

After I have built my first two battery's I will then set about harvasting and using second hand 18650's for a power wall. (I have a 200w wind turbine, and will slowly puschase a few PV Panels). But, for now, i want to use new battery's becasue of my in experience at building such a battery. I have reasoably ghood electronic/electrical knowledge and skills, so it makes seense to build them my self, considering i can save approx $200 Au Per battery by going DIY.

Thanks in advance!

Greetings. Check out Queen Battery. They seem quite happy to ship samples to Australia. I don't know how much freight for bulk batteries, or what kind of tax you may have to pay.

However, if you are going to buy new batteries, it would be well worth considering large format. Such as26650, probably cheaper, definitely easier to assemble.

That said if I was going to buy new, I would go large LiFe prismatics. There are several suppliers in Australia who stock batteries for EVs. LiFe works out a little more expensive per Kw/h compared to Li-Ion, but they last a lot longer. Check out some datasheets and see for yourself.

I really don't think I would consider buying new small form factor batteries to make big packs. The main reason behind assembling packs from 18650, is they are widely available second hand, often in good condition. If you really want good bang for buck, search for 'new old stock' laptop batteries. These may be old, but not used theymost surely will have lost some capacity, but should be good for years to come.

Hi Geek thank you for your response

cost is a big issue for me. I'd love to go a larger form factor, but until I can build an equivalent battery for the same price it's out of the question just because of my budget. In Australia, I can't find anyone selling other form factors in larger quantity's than just a hand full and also at a reasonable price. If you find something specific, local and cheap feel free to let us know about it, I would be most grateful

I have looked into overseas suppliers but the ones I looked at had great cell prices, but postage was a killer. in some cases costing more than the cells.

Used cells. I have a few already and I have a few ideas for sourcing and harvestying more. the problem is that will make a VERY LARGE battery if I stick to 52v and 20 Ah. then theres also the messing about with arranging the capacity's, making sure (including some hope and praying) that I source battery's of the correct maxiumum amp draw. theres quite a bit of fuss and potentially (but not likely) the prospect of this taking a month or more to organise the cells alone. I want my cells yesterday lol. I have the money and am just holding out for a better source than the one i mention in the previous post. but it looks like my Search has come to an end and I am buying 250 of these:

Jayson_Black said:

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cost is a big issue for me. I am planning to build a powerwall for my third battery. using second hand cells. I disagree withou on 18650's being too small. There are planty of companies both experienced and start ups that are using them for ebike packs the same as mine. I mean dont get me wrong, I would love to use a lrger form factor, but while those battery's are more effective in their power density, they are not yet as cheap as their own 18650 equivelants. But thank you all the same. your information may be usefull to me a little later, just not yet

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For an e-bike, it may be worth considering LiPo. They can work out a little more expensive, but LiPo are very light, and therefore you would need less power to move your bike. Also, they often happily accept a 1C charge, so they can be charged very quickly.Hobbyking is quite competitively priced. 18650s however are more robust. Very appropriate for an eBike.

Yeah Geek, lipo in a sense would be great. Especially because I have more access to lipo. Not just because of its proliferation and availability but because I am the president of a radio-controlled car club and I know a few hobby suppliers and can often get the wholesale price even in small batches of Lipo.

Many of them can take much more than a 1C Charge too and I can access readily a Discharge rate of anything up to 130C :O but yeh, even then, the cost is huge. I cant afford much more than $500 Per Battery (building 2 of them)

I have owned many, many, many Hobbyking Lipos. (I'm into Drones and planes too) (god help me, I'm into almost everything) Most of them have had some issue at some point. I'm not complaining or ragging on Hobbyking, but For an ebike I am hesitant. Lipo is far less stable (forgiving) than lion. So I dunno. If I ever have some High C Ones laying about I may experiment on the bikes, but right now I just don't trust them enough. I don't mind them for RC Stuff, but I wouldn't wanna use them for a Powerwall or ebike or EV. I'm not saying you cant, just I'm a bit chicken of that hehe.

I also am set to go for high-speed charging. I have a Turnigy reactor 2 x 300w, and a couple of other cheaper ones. but even then I feel we are being a little more responsible by going with Lion 18650, at least for the first project. then who knows. I am really hoping for one of the other similar chemistries to take off and replace Lion as the new Norm. I dunno, I saw a cool documentary on Graphene. Made it sound so awesome. But I have had a Turnigy graphene and it was nothing to write home about. I have also seen a video that dismantled a Graphene battery and the host of the video suggested they may not be true "Graphene" batteries but all that's above my level of understanding. I have every intention of over-powering and over-volting my ebike. But I will work my way up to it. I don't know for sure yet, but I suspect I would have to go lipo if I can get my motor to exhaust Lion's limits.

I have every intention of exploring all the options out there. lol but I am getting a little older now and I like to take my time and take the safe and well know route these days. My days of being a front-runner for anything are over. lol. An Analogy that comes to mind is upgrading windows. I take many years to upgrade windows. I've been bitten too many times. I still haven't upgraded to windows 10. not because I cant, but because I like to wait till everything has settled down, all the bugs worked out etc etc. I'm also a bit lazy, I prolly could have switched more than a year ago, but still haven't. Well, all the different lithium choices are a bit like that (to me). so I want to go with Lion because it's tried and true and proved to be super reliable. Especially when you use BMS like I absolutely will.

I need to go find or make a thread regarding BMS. I'm having a very hard time finding a BMS that I both like and understand :/ lol.

Thanks again mate

Thanks for your help Geek. I'm going to order those FST batts above. they should do the job for a couple of years or more.