FAQ

Korishan said:
You mean like this?

3s4p Battery (or is that 4s3p?)


image_grvdpp.jpg

image_xhngzp.jpg
Click to expand...

More important.... we do have a volunteer who is qualified to make the pretty pictures... ;)

I vote for Korishan, his are the pretty'est :D
 
I do to. Korishan for the pain-master
 
Actually, that was first time using Paint 3D :p Surprised it came out that good in a few quick mins (reason why I labeled them wrong in the 1st post)

Wow, just went back and read the last couple hours of replies and there's a lot of confusion. I shall now attempt to make a better larger picto-gram. Here goes.....
 
I've done RC stuff as well, I'm very familiar with this sort of thing. However, I still stand by my point that I've NEVER seen yPxS in use. If we do now, no one will understand that the only difference is wiring of the BMS if there is one. That's why no one uses this in the first place.

But since you think this is important and this is a group work, go on and write the explanation for the FAQ ;)
 
DOH! I dont wanna write it haha :p

Nah i can perhaps write something together about it. I know that i found a decent explanation somewhere hmm Il get back in that point.

Yeah we all need to get together when it comes to this sorta things.
 
Ok, here's a rough draft of the 4s3p vs 3p4s



image_pqbsjt.jpg



Anything I need to change on it? I'm gonna work on the lines a little better. Kinda difficult to draw 2D lines in 3D program :rolleyes:

Ohh, another reason to make the distinction at some level, is if someone does a series with just Xs1p and the parallels the strings, voltage imbalances could occur especially w/o the bms. If they do the 4s3p method, then the chances of a cell going low or negative voltage is very very slim.
 
Whatever you do, do not change the color of the cells any more... (maybe a bit brighter green...) ;)

It is very clear there is a difference .... but i still get confiused why en when to use 4s3p or 3p4s.
In my mind you build packs of xp and you put them in xs, always and put x strings of them in parallel.... so if in your drawing of 4s3p thereare packs of 10 cellsinstead of single cells it would be 3x 4s10p, right?
Shoud this not be an other type ? (remember the poll a while back with system A, B and C)

Maybe it would be better to draw (xp)packs instead ofsingle cells... (we all do kind ofmake packs) :D
 
The first image Korishan did draw is packs. Packs of 4 and 4 you could say.

For instance i build 80p packs. Connect 14 in series. Aka 14s80p.
But then i paralell those strings and currently have
2*14s80p :)
 
daromer said:
The first image Korishan did draw is packs. Packs of 4 and 4 you could say.

For instance i build 80p packs. Connect 14 in series. Aka 14s80p.
But then i paralell those strings and currently have
2*14s80p :)
Click to expand...

You could also say 2p14s80p right? Or is it 14s80p2p? ..... is this stuff confusing? :D
Maybe something like 2p(14s80p)
 
2p14s80p would be correct, or 2*14s80p. Both shows two strings of 14 packs that are connected in series with each pack having 80 cells in parallel. This is the reason why it makes a difference on the designations.
If it were 80p14s, then there'd be 80 packs that are connected in parallel with each pack having 14 cells (single) connected in series.
Unless it was 80p14s4p, then it'd be 80 packs that are connected in parallel with each pack having 14 strings of 4 cells in parallel connected in series.

There's a madness behind the reasoning. Err. I mean, a method behind the madness :p

Perhaps I'll draw up all 4 type of connections so that it a lot more visible. But I'll stick with a 4 pack max for simplicity sake ;)
 
I just had a brainwave. Or a brainfart. You decide! :D

No one is doing YpXs anyway, right? Some people ask for it, but unless you have a very good reason you shouldn't do it. Since this is supposed to be for beginners, shouldn't we just say "Look, this is the notation for the specification of a battery and XsYp works like this: ..." and "You can do it the other way, but you shouldn't unless you have a reason."?
 
2p14s80p is even more correct, it also indicates the 2 strings of 14s80p are connected in parallel, 2*14s80p is not.... Some guy may put 2 strings of 14s80p in series heaven forbid, we cant have that ;)

If you want to stick to 4 packs, ok, but just do not change the color :D
 
Hahah, well, this is essentially true. However, there are a few who are doing the YpXs design.

I suppose I kind of am. I plan on making each pack 48V nominal. But I haven't decided if I wanted to do Xp14s, or make the pack 14sXp. It kind of all depends on how well I can build the bms hardware and how flexible I can make it.

The reason the color changed was because I imported someone elses 3D design of a cell. It's more of a glossy color. That's all ;)
 
I must admit, always thought 80p14s was 80 cells in parallel per pack, and then 14 of those in series. :blush:

LOL, If we can't agree, what chance has a poor noob got. :rolleyes: :)

Maybe we should have an aptitude test for new members, where they have to correctly answer which is which after reading the FAQ, before we let them in. :D

Korishan said:
What is MPPT and PWM charge controllers?
- MPPT is Multi Point Power Tracking. This charger tracks along the voltage/current curves of the supplying generator (usually Solar Panels) to achieve the greatest
Click to expand...

I thought it was Maximum Point Power Tracking. :huh:
 
Yeah it is really counterintuitive. That's why I would always use 14s80p for both configurations. Because that's what it is. But if I had to use both, then I would read those as what to do first and what to do second. And that means 14s80p is 14 cells in series, paralled 80 times. And 80p14s is the opposite, exactly as you thought it is. But instead real 80p14s rarely exists and 14s80p is what we would call 80p14s because this is the intuitive interpretation. However, obviously 14s80p can also be read as 14 serial packs of 80 parallel cells. So both ways are possible if logic is applied. But instead we apply a definition to something that tries to be descriptive. Small wonder that this doesn't work properly.

Apart from ignoring it and telling people they simply shouldn't do 80p14s I don't see a way around this at the moment.

Oh, and yes, the M in MPPT means Maximum. There is something like MPT, Multi Point Tracking, and MPMT, Multi Point Motion Tracking, but both aren't related to solar or even electricity.
 
Maximum Power Point Tracking. Yes, I was just throwing it out there. I don't use these so I didn't catch it right off hand. However, you all knew what I was referring to ;)

Ok, so, now onto another section of the FAQ. The pack building nominclature is still in debate, but let us focus on further down the line. We gotta get the FAQ done. There's gonna more and more noobs coming here now that Pete's been on the news, and several other main stream news sites have picked up on it.
 
Korishan said:
Maximum Power Point Tracking. Yes, I was just throwing it out there. I don't use these so I didn't catch it right off hand. However, you all knew what I was referring to ;)

Ok, so, now onto another section of the FAQ. The pack building nominclature is still in debate, but let us focus on further down the line. We gotta get the FAQ done. There's gonna more and more noobs coming here now that Pete's been on the news, and several other main stream news sites have picked up on it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Just thinking what about a Wiki? Then anyone could contribute to it. It would be easy to read and easy to search. If you search this forum, you are likely to find many discussions that are not relevant toyourscenario. (for want of better way to word that :p)
 
That is true. I don't know the steps to making a Wiki. Never done it before. But it is a good idea. However, we want to make sure the information is as accurate as possible and don't want someone mucking it up cuz they got a bug up their butt, ya know? ;)
 
Korishan said:
That is true. I don't know the steps to making a Wiki. Never done it before. But it is a good idea. However, we want to make sure the information is as accurate as possible and don't want someone mucking it up cuz they got a bug up their butt, ya know? ;)
Click to expand...

It is very easy to set up a Wiki. You could just allow a select number of users from this forum to make modifications. That way you wold be able to regulate it. Anyone makes a mess, kick them. There are plenty of us who know enough to help compile content.
 
Wim: Yeap correct. 2p14s80p is what i run on my 2nd bank and on my main bank I actually run

4p16s400p :)
 
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